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Author Topic: "...i've never had a controller talk to me like that!"  (Read 25577 times)
pilot2009
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« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2008, 10:33:24 PM »

Not to light any fires here, but if I were the pilot, I'd work on sounding a bit more competent.  He could've just said "N..05R requesting radar vectors direct Mile Square".  I fly this controller's airspace frequently and he's always been friendly as long as you sound professional.  Why is he asking for a "steer" to Mile Square if he is "familiar"?  Anyway, if you feel you're being used by a controller you can always ask for a time check and about 95% of the time the controller will get his/her act together in a hurry!
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SirIsaac726
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« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2008, 11:01:05 PM »

I hope he didnt get any action taken against him. Its not our job to hold pilots hands! Pick up a freaking chart. Pilots bitch at us all the time, we dont get offended. but you say saomethign to them, and they run away crying! 

Jeez.  Someone needs a nap and a "chill pill".  Clearly the pilot was a little disoriented and just wanted minimal help.  That is a controllers job...help the pilots when it is needed.  And crying...all he did was ask for the number...quite appropriate I think.
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davolijj
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« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2008, 11:31:37 AM »

It is the controller's job, you're absolutely right.  It's written in the 7110.65 plain as day:

Quote from: 7110.65S  Chapter 5, Section 6
5-6-1. APPLICATION

Vector aircraft:

a. In controlled airspace for separation, safety, noise abatement, operational advantage, or when a pilot requests. Allow aircraft operating on an RNAV route to remain on their own navigation to the extent possible.

Notice it doesn't say "vector IFR aircraft," and I realize that in this case it was an additional service but let's face it, if the controller wasn't too busy to chew out the pilot for his request, then he wasn't too busy to provide this additional service.  The controller here was way out of line.
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Regards
JD
glencar
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« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2008, 08:04:39 PM »

I had a pilot yesterday morning who was on a Class B clearance that he acknowledged. About one minute later, he elected to fly an airway that was about 4 miles south of where he was supposed to be. When I asked him about it, I got a pretty lackadaisical attitude. When I told him he almost ran into a B747 that was climbing into him, he still seemed a bit devil-may-care. This works both ways. Yes there are some controllers/supervisors who are a bit short-tempered but there are plenty of pilots who are careless/nasty. I think that is more a reflection of the human element than anything.
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #19 on: September 22, 2008, 11:43:10 AM »

Yes there are some controllers/supervisors who are a bit short-tempered but there are plenty of pilots who are careless/nasty.

I would also agree that in the big picture pilots as a group contain a larger percentage of careless and nasty individuals than controllers as a group.  There are many examples of bonehead pilot moves that probably could be culled from the LiveATC archives every day.    

What I fear is that, as was displayed previously in this thread, a controller adopts an incorrect mentality that all pilots are boneheads because of the actions of some.  Consequently, these few controllers end up holding back "volunteer" services such as initial headings to a fix, VFR traffic calls, or thunderstorm avoidance calls because of some ill-conceived prejudice.

I cannot stop thinking about the Scott Crossfield fatal accident whereby he inadvertently flew his C210 into a level 6 thunderstorm cell with nary a warning from ATC.   Not at all implying that ATC was 100% at fault here but there is no doubt that an ATC call like the one I received this past summer from a very sharp controller ("Bonanza XXX, extreme weather showing in your route 50 miles ahead, deviation recommended.") may have broken the chain that led to this.
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
NAplaya16-ATC
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« Reply #20 on: September 23, 2008, 01:49:04 AM »

"I hope he didnt get any action taken against him. Its not our job to hold pilots hands! Pick up a freaking chart. Pilots bitch at us all the time, we dont get offended. but you say saomethign to them, and they run away crying!"

dude, are you serious???  Thats an idiotic remark!

To quote from Southpark and from another post that involved our boy Boston John,
"Sounds like someone has got some sand up his vagina!"
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englishpilot
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« Reply #21 on: September 23, 2008, 09:06:58 AM »

You know I really didn't like that pilot's tone of voice from the beginning at all - thought he sounded a little too cockey and arrogant for my liking and also perhaps a little sarcastic. 

Also, I know that many of you have been saying "well the controller had 30 seconds to rant" but he quite clearly said "I don't ALWAYS have time to" not I don't have time to.

I'm with the controller on this one. 
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I don't proclaim to be the best pilot in the world but I'm safe.
KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #22 on: September 23, 2008, 09:15:58 AM »

You know I really didn't like that pilot's tone of voice from the beginning at all - thought he sounded a little too cockey and arrogant for my liking and also perhaps a little sarcastic. 

Didn't get that impression at all.  It must be a cultural difference.
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
EGLLATC
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« Reply #23 on: September 23, 2008, 02:56:30 PM »

New to this site and forum, but this is simply disgracefull from the controller. If he had a problem with the request or was having a bad day he should have kept it "off mike". Very unprofessional....he thinks he's busy!
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atav
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« Reply #24 on: September 24, 2008, 09:10:51 PM »

I hope he didnt get any action taken against him. Its not our job to hold pilots hands! Pick up a freaking chart. Pilots bitch at us all the time, we dont get offended. but you say saomethign to them, and they run away crying! 

Nice "us versus them" mentality.  As a real life pilot who actually has a lot of respect for skilled controllers I hope that is just the keyboard talking there.

I toally agree. This site/real life shouldn't be Pilots vs. ATCers, you're a team... In my opinion, the controller was way wrong.
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englishpilot
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« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2008, 11:53:57 PM »

"I hope he didnt get any action taken against him. Its not our job to hold pilots hands! Pick up a freaking chart. Pilots bitch at us all the time, we dont get offended. but you say saomething to them, and they run away crying!"

dude, are you serious???  Thats an idiotic remark!

To quote from Southpark and from another post that involved our boy Boston John,
"Sounds like someone has got some sand up his vagina!"

I absolutely agree with the top remark.  I am a pilot and it is my responsibility to steer my ship - it is all about being a pilot an navigation is one of our functions - not to be lazy and to ask ATC to make decisions for me. 

100% with the controller on this one and I'm quite frankly surprised and almost disgusted about some of the comments that have been made regarding this clip.  Remember - the controller said "I don't ALWAYS (although not this time) have time" - maybe this is an on-going problem for ATC in this area and that they are wasting a lot of time on requests like this. 

Don't be so quick to judge - all of you.
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I don't proclaim to be the best pilot in the world but I'm safe.
SirIsaac726
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« Reply #26 on: September 25, 2008, 05:11:57 PM »

Correct, a pilot is supposed to navigate the plane...but when they need help and might be a little confused or disoriented, it is best to ask for help rather than risk lives in not only the actual plane, but on the ground or in another plane.  I don't see what is so hard to comprehend about a pilot needing help.  It is always better to ask for help than to let a situation get a hold of you and risk lives.

I don't understand your other comment either.  The pilot was being cocky?  I'm sorry, but if the pilot was really cocky, he wouldn't be asking for assisstance would he?  He'd be trying to do it like a big shot and not ask for help - do it all himself.

Now, I don't think what the controller said was that rude or extreme but it definetly didn't warrant that long winded explanation.  Help the pilot and then give him a number to call if you really want to tell him that sometimes you are busy and can't help him. 

Don't be so quick to judge - englishpilot.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2008, 05:14:41 PM by SirIsaac726 » Logged
pilot221
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« Reply #27 on: September 25, 2008, 08:46:09 PM »

Yeah, this is funny. I'm both a pilot and controller...I agree with the pilot on this one. In a plane, no matter how experienced you are with the area it is possible to get disoriented. When that happens, you request assistance from people on the ground who have the equipment to help you out. Controllers I believe they are called. Do we know what the visibility was? Probably not good, we are talking about L.A. All the guy asked for was a little help. Something pilots should never be scared of doing. Had that guy crashed or done something not good, the controller would be in a tight spot. Every situation is different but that's my opinion on this one.
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #28 on: September 25, 2008, 09:34:19 PM »

Don't be so quick to judge - all of you.

Okay, color me confused on this one.  You clearly state "don't be so quick to judge," yet you were the one who labeled the pilot... hmm... what was that again?  Oh, yeah:   "... thought he sounded a little too cockey and arrogant for my liking and also perhaps a little sarcastic.

Would that be considered judging?   I can't tell.
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
Mirlady
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« Reply #29 on: December 21, 2011, 05:16:54 AM »

Can you help me out? What are the exact words of the controller after: " let me give you some advice....  I probably don't always have time to..... do what"Huh
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