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| | |-+  "Give me a number and your ID please."
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Author Topic: "Give me a number and your ID please."  (Read 44022 times)
KSYR-pjr
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« on: April 26, 2006, 05:03:46 PM »

Appreciation goes to kkjlai for this find:

An Air Canada flight departs Toronto, checks in with a busy departure, and then immediately tries to offer two suggestions to the controller to remove the speed restriction.

The first offer was politely declined by the controller, but the second was met with an "Enough."

The pilot clearly suffered a bruised ego and demanded a phone number and ID multiple times, presumably to complain about the treatment he had just received.

The clip has been edited to remove some non-essential comms.
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #1 on: April 26, 2006, 05:19:40 PM »

Hey, could someone with WinAmp let me know if you are correctly hearing the last 15 seconds or so of the clip, which is the part where the pilot stumbles through his hand-off readback and is corrected by the controller, but still demands the number and ID?

The clip plays fine when I listened to it before uploading it, but now in WinAmp the clips skips over the last 15 seconds to the end.  

I suspect this may be due to having SQRSoft's Crossfader plug-in installed on my version of WinAmp, but I want to make sure the clip isn't corrupted.  The clip plays fine in Windows Media Player, FWIW.
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
gfw123
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« Reply #2 on: April 26, 2006, 05:33:27 PM »

Quote from: KSYR-pjr
Hey, could someone with WinAmp let me know if you are correctly hearing the last 15 seconds or so of the clip, which is the part where the pilot stumbles through his hand-off readback and is corrected by the controller, but still demands the number and ID?

The clip plays fine when I listened to it before uploading it, but now in WinAmp the clips skips over the last 15 seconds to the end.  

I suspect this may be due to having SQRSoft's Crossfader plug-in installed on my version of WinAmp, but I want to make sure the clip isn't corrupted.  The clip plays fine in Windows Media Player, FWIW.


Well, I don't use winamp, but it sounds great in QuickTime player.

Nice clip by the way, good find.

--greg.
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ChAsEr911
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« Reply #3 on: April 26, 2006, 05:36:38 PM »

Hello,

the last 15 secs of the clip works fine with WinAmp so far.

Thanks for the clip. Smiley

*edit*
hehe first post and 3 minutes late... Wink
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #4 on: April 26, 2006, 05:39:10 PM »

Quote from: ChAsEr911
Thanks for the clip. Smiley


Thanks, guys, for the report.

Also, for clarification, kkjlai was the one who found it - I was just the workhorse looking to preserve the clip  (recalling that the archives only retain the most recent seven days of audio).  Smiley
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
Adrian8
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« Reply #5 on: April 26, 2006, 06:43:53 PM »

Wow is all I have to say to this, listening to the Toronto feed a couple hours a day and knowing how great the controllers are. What an ignorant pilot.
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digger
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« Reply #6 on: April 26, 2006, 06:44:33 PM »

Thanks for compiling that clip--well worth listening to!

I agree that the pilot was being a jerk. Unfortunately, I think the controller should have given him the number. I think the controller was well within bounds in telling the pilot when enough was enough, and I'd expect management to have supported him. (After all, it's not the FAA.)  rolleyes  Stonewalling the pilot about the number is probably contrary to agency policy though....
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Pygmie
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« Reply #7 on: April 26, 2006, 06:55:20 PM »

In this case, I don't at all think the controller was stonewalling the pilot about the number.  If I'm busy controlling traffic, I'm not about to take my mind off controlling to issue phone numbers to pissed off aircraft, and I'm certainly not going to get distracted by engaging the pilot in an argument about what happend (which probably would have followed if the controller had issued the number).

It's not as if the controller thought that by ignoring the pilot he could avoid the situation completely.  Every controller knows that there are multiple ways of checking which controller was working which position for every second of the day, and that all the ACC phone numbers are publicly avaliable from any number of places.

Yes, if the controller had a couple of minutes to spare, and wasn't that busy, he should have gave the pilot the number, but if I'm busy, that's going to be the last thing on my mind, and the last item on a long list of priorities.
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Adrian8
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« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2006, 07:01:46 PM »

I still can't understand what the pilot was so upset about. This is AIR TRAFFIC.  There are going to be restrictions.  ACA460 is YYZ-YOW, so there is going to be a lot of traffic between the two and there's no sense complaining.  rolleyes
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kkjlai
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« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2006, 07:06:18 PM »

KSYR-pjr, wonder if you can also add the following into the [nice] clip you have produced [for me]..

in the archive, CZYZ-Apr-25-06-1730.mp3   (Toronto Center)

at 5:01 into the clip, I guess (and remembered) AC460 asked the enroute controller for the number and the ID for the previous controller.  (2 seconds)

at 07:58 into the clip, the enroute controller gave out the Number and advice AC460 that "the supervisor was aware of the identity of the controller who worked you"  and a few chats about this from another pilot.  

The chat actually was longer when I hear it live on my scanner but was unfourtunly blocked by a open mic an other channel here in the archive..  
 Sad

Thanks again KSYR-pjr!

kkjlai
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Cessna172
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« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2006, 07:32:24 PM »

Nice find!! Thanks!!

Cessna172
Home Airport: West Houston Airport (KIWS)
www.westhoustonairport.com
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digger
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« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2006, 07:48:22 PM »

Quote
It's not as if the controller thought that by ignoring the pilot he could avoid the situation completely.


I agree. And now, the tape will be listened to anyway. The reality is though, that if he had time, at any point, (and we don't know how much time he actually had--dealing with that pilot certainly used up some of it), to give the number and didn't, now *he* has given the appearance of being the uncooperative one, as opposed to the pilot who should have quit chipping at him after the first negative response to his request.

As I said earlier, I thought management should have been supportive of his "enough" reply. (Actually, a simple "UNABLE" would probably have been a better choice of phraseology.)

I think it will take some *very* supportive management to agree wholheartedly that ignoring the guy was the best decision. Do you think they'll be that supportive?
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XTSKid
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« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2006, 11:01:21 PM »

The controller will hear about it. But that is likely about as far as it will go.
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flyer_d
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ID
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2006, 11:58:39 PM »

Good clip!

To identify controllers at a facility, controllers are supposed to give their initials upon request.  If the controller thought he was right, the tapes would have proved him right, and he shouldn't have refused to give the ID.  (He could let the pilot look up the phone number however -- that's publicly available.)

So his excuse "I don't have time" is factitious.  He could have given his initials in the time it took to say "don't have time."

(And the prior comment that his comment "enough" should have been "unable" was right on.)
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727driver
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« Reply #14 on: April 27, 2006, 12:42:40 AM »

Give the controller a break he is working very busy departure freq. where there are lots of clearances to be issued in a short period of time.  The pilot can call his ops when he gets to destination and file the incident on the flight report if he feels that his ego wasn't stroked just right.  I would hate to have to sit next to a jackass like that. I'm sure it was a very long ride for the F/O to have to listen to this guy the rest of the day.  Also sounds like he should be paying more attention to his ATC clearance than worrying about pulling tapes and getting Id's.  Guy can't even read back the proper heading.  There is a time and place for discussion like that.  On 128.8 is not the time or doing 7 miles/minute in high density airspace is not the place.  This guy needs to pull his head out of his ass.
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