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| | |-+  "where in God's name are you going?"
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Author Topic: "where in God's name are you going?"  (Read 11068 times)
keith
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« on: April 01, 2012, 10:29:02 PM »

Caught this one live while I was flying through the sector (my calls along with just about all the others were edited out of this recording to keep it short).

N601AD departing HPN heading to TEB. TEB was in north ops at the time. Pilot checks in on 320 heading, controller eventually issues 180 heading, but meant to issue 280 heading. Fun ensues.

The pilot's read back seems a little unclear (first digit is unreadable, to my ears at least). Had it been more clear, the controller may have caught it. Another link in the incident chain.

Notice how spectacularly clear the subsequent read backs are?

The controller's point about working as a team was a good one. There are some nice learning points for pilots and controllers alike in this one.
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rjs176cp
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« Reply #1 on: April 01, 2012, 10:50:47 PM »

good clip
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notaperfectpilot
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« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2012, 08:30:41 AM »

the controller did say 180 and the pilot did read it back correctly....
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johnm1019
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« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2012, 10:14:47 AM »

controller clearly says 180.
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makonyy15
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« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2012, 10:45:38 AM »

I concur- definitely heard 180 from the controller.

Here's the flight path from FlightAware. Can clearly see the turn to 180 before the correction to 280.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N601AD/history/20120324/1830Z/KHPN/KTEB
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keith
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« Reply #5 on: April 02, 2012, 12:20:21 PM »

There is no contention about the fact that the controller said 180. 

The real learning here, I think, is that the pilots noticed the strange heading (likely given their experience in flying in/out of that airport) but didn't question/confirm the heading. That's the controller's point here.
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iskyfly
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« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2012, 01:46:57 PM »

on initial call up the pilot already started using non standard phraseology.

"3 point 8 for 4 thousand"

3.8? he should be sent back to ground school.
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SirIsaac726
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« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2012, 11:19:55 PM »

on initial call up the pilot already started using non standard phraseology.

"3 point 8 for 4 thousand"

3.8? he should be sent back to ground school.

Oh come on...

That has no bearing on this issue.
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vb105
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« Reply #8 on: April 03, 2012, 07:29:53 AM »

Agreed!


on initial call up the pilot already started using non standard phraseology.

"3 point 8 for 4 thousand"

3.8? he should be sent back to ground school.

Oh come on...

That has no bearing on this issue.
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iskyfly
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« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2012, 09:04:46 AM »

on initial call up the pilot already started using non standard phraseology.

"3 point 8 for 4 thousand"

3.8? he should be sent back to ground school.

Oh come on...

That has no bearing on this issue.
I'm not sure I agree.
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notaperfectpilot
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« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2012, 09:09:42 AM »

on initial call up the pilot already started using non standard phraseology.

"3 point 8 for 4 thousand"

3.8? he should be sent back to ground school.

Oh come on...

That has no bearing on this issue.
I'm not sure I agree.


Yes, he did use non standard phraseology but I don't think that it is exactly pertinent to the situation though...

iskyfly: do you mind saying why you think that it is important? Maybe there is something that I am missing! 
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iskyfly
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« Reply #11 on: April 03, 2012, 09:32:34 AM »

Laziness, complacency = bad habits. I am left to wonder what other non standard practices he performs when PIC.
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notaperfectpilot
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« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2012, 09:40:30 AM »

sure, that is a good thing to wonder though, I don't know if we have enough information to say that he always uses non standard practices while PIC.
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Rick108
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« Reply #13 on: April 03, 2012, 09:58:55 AM »

on initial call up the pilot already started using non standard phraseology.

"3 point 8 for 4 thousand"

3.8? he should be sent back to ground school.

In busy NY airspace, this is pretty much standard phraseology.  Listen to JFK / TEB departure freq and you will hear this frequently. It may be non-standard by the book, but it is heavily used. You can't make any judgement about the pilot from this one transmission.
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iskyfly
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« Reply #14 on: April 03, 2012, 11:07:51 AM »

on initial call up the pilot already started using non standard phraseology.

"3 point 8 for 4 thousand"

3.8? he should be sent back to ground school.

In busy NY airspace, this is pretty much standard phraseology.  Listen to JFK / TEB departure freq and you will hear this frequently. It may be non-standard by the book, but it is heavily used. You can't make any judgement about the pilot from this one transmission.

I doubt you would hear that from controllers.
 
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