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| | |-+  757 heavy question from the controller. KLAX 12-21-09
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Author Topic: 757 heavy question from the controller. KLAX 12-21-09  (Read 13548 times)
speedotann
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« on: December 22, 2009, 11:14:27 AM »

I have posted in the past about this aa254 (heavy) and united 162 (regular) Both 757-200's... This is what I got last night. The Lax tower ask aa192 if they are a heavy or a regular "Seven Five". Enlighten me fellas!!
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joeyb747
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« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2009, 12:48:53 PM »

All 757-300s are heavies. Some 757-200s have extra fuel tanks, putting MTOW above 255,000lbs, making them a heavy. 757-200s without the extra fuel tanks are not heavies, but are usually treated as such for separation on final and take off due to wake turbulence produced by the 757.

Simply put, an airplane with a MTOW of 255,000 lbs or more is a heavy.
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sykocus
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« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2009, 01:26:40 PM »

Was it necessary to start another topic on this, um...topic? I thought it was answered by myself and others in several before.
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tyketto
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« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2009, 01:33:22 PM »

To nip this in the bud, this is why the controller asked:

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Notice/N7110.504.pdf

If the first B752 is heavy and the B752 that is following him is not, 5 miles separation.
If the first B752 is not heavy and the B752 that is following him is, 4 miles separation.
If the first B752 is heavy and the B752 that is following him is also heavy, 4 miles separation.

ATC will not know that from the flight strip, so they have to ask.

BL.
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Jason
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« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2009, 01:36:11 PM »

To nip this in the bud, this is why the controller asked:

http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Notice/N7110.504.pdf

If the first B752 is heavy and the B752 that is following him is not, 5 miles separation.
If the first B752 is not heavy and the B752 that is following him is, 4 miles separation.
If the first B752 is heavy and the B752 that is following him is also heavy, 4 miles separation.

ATC will not know that from the flight strip, so they have to ask.

BL.


Also note that some facilities direct controllers to treat all 757's as heavy now. It varies facility to facility.
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speedotann
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« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2009, 02:02:39 PM »

The reason i put this up is exactly what you read. Everyone says something different every time.
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speedotann
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« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2009, 02:04:25 PM »

Was it necessary to start another topic on this, um...topic? I thought it was answered by myself and others in several before.

What is the big deal? Trying to get a straight answer...
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Jason
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« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2009, 02:17:23 PM »

The reason i put this up is exactly what you read. Everyone says something different every time.

We are all trying to help answer your question. That's the community environment we aspire for.

Best,
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speedotann
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« Reply #8 on: December 22, 2009, 02:22:47 PM »

Well, I found out one thing for sure, All 757's are not heavy.
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sykocus
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« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2009, 03:11:27 PM »

The reason i put this up is exactly what you read. Everyone says something different every time.


Was it necessary to start another topic on this, um...topic? I thought it was answered by myself and others in several before.

What is the big deal? Trying to get a straight answer...

I didn't until now notice you were the same one asking the question the last 3 times. If you want clarification then it's best to ask for it. By asking the same question anew 3 times people start over from the beginning and you don't necessarily get any new information.

People aren't giving different answers each time, they are giving the same some just add different information then others. It would help too if you clarify what exactly you don't understand. Are you wondering why the controller is asking the plane or why some are called heavy and some not? Or something else. There is no problem asking a question, but if you aren't getting the information you want repeatedly asking the same question isn't he way to get it. 

In summery:
From appendix A of USDOT FAA Order 7110.65R

http://www.borzov.net/Pilot/ATC.pdf

"AIRCRAFT WEIGHT CLASSES
a. Heavy. Aircraft capable of takeoff weights of
more than 255,000 pounds whether or not they are
operating at this weight during a particular phase of
flight.

b. Large. Aircraft of more than 41,000 pounds,
maximum certificated takeoff weight, up to
255,000 pounds.
c. Small. Aircraft of 41,000 pounds or less
maximum certificated takeoff weight."






It boils down to this. All 753's are heavies. Some 752's are heavies due to extra fuel tanks and being rated for a higher MTOW then most 752's. Even the 752's that are not heavies have special separation rules that apply to them on final, but it's not as simple as treating them as heavies.

We now have to treat all 757 200 series as heavies. But if you ask the pilot and they state that they are not a heavy then you can treat them as a regular 757.



If you have more questions feel free to ask, but it's not necessarily to start a new thread when you hear a controller call a 752 a heavy.
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speedotann
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« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2009, 03:41:32 PM »

I get it now.... Thanks for all of the responses. Do all of AA's 757's have the winglets? add on tanks?
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tyketto
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« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2009, 10:58:58 PM »

I get it now.... Thanks for all of the responses. Do all of AA's 757's have the winglets? add on tanks?

To my knowledge, no, and no.

The only airline that did have their entire fleet B752s configured (whether it be by extra tanks, or other configurations) to exceed the 255,000lb MTOW was the now-defunct ATA Airlines. Everyone else now varies.

BL.
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Pileits
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« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2009, 03:48:15 AM »

I get it now.... Thanks for all of the responses. Do all of AA's 757's have the winglets? add on tanks?

As far as I know there are NO "add on tanks" made for 757s.
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joeyb747
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« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2009, 09:48:33 PM »

I get it now.... Thanks for all of the responses. Do all of AA's 757's have the winglets? add on tanks?

As far as I know there are NO "add on tanks" made for 757s.

Extra tanks for the B757 are possible. The B757-200X is an airplane in study for possible release. It would combine the fuselage of the B757-200 with the wing structure of the B757-300, with extra fuel tanks on board. With a MTOW of 272,000 lbs, that would qualify the airplane as a heavy. Also, there is a military version called the VC-32A that has extra tanks in the cargo holds.

"757-200X: Projected extended-range version under study in 1999; would combine fuselage of 757-200 with strengthened wing structure of 757-300; two auxiliary fuel tanks in aft cargo hold, combined capacity 3,785 litres (1,000 US gallons; 833 Imp gallons); maximum take-off weight 123,375 kg (272,000 lb); range 5,000 n miles; (9,260 km; 5,753 miles)."

"VC-32A: Boeing 757-2G4. Four, with PW2040 engines, ordered 8 August 1996 as replacements for VC-137s of USAF's 89th Airlift Wing at Andrews AFB, Maryland. First aircraft (98-0001) flew 11 February 1998 and was delivered to 89th AW on 19 June. Further three followed on 23 June, 20 November and 25 November 1998. Post-production modifications, performed at Boeing's Wichita facility and completed on first aircraft on 2 April 1999, include installation of auxiliary fuel tanks, capacity 6,984 litres (1,845 US gallons; 1,536 Imp gallons) in forward and aft cargo holds, increasing range to 5,000 n miles (9,260 km; 5,753 miles); self-deploying forward airstair; crew ladder; satcom upgrade; and 378 litre (100 US gallon; 83.0 Imp gallon) potable water tank."

From:

http://www.janes.com/aerospace/civil/news/jawa/boeing_757-200.shtml


« Last Edit: December 24, 2009, 06:46:24 AM by joeyb747 » Logged

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joeyb747
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« Reply #14 on: December 23, 2009, 10:17:29 PM »

And let's not forget:

"757-300; two auxiliary fuel tanks in aft cargo hold, combined capacity 3,785 litres (1,000 US gallons; 833 Imp gallons); maximum take-off weight 123,375 kg (272,000 lb); range 5,000 n miles; (9,260 km; 5,753 miles)."

Also from:

http://www.janes.com/aerospace/civil/news/jawa/boeing_757-200.shtml
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