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| | |-+  767 almost lands on wrong runway at JFK Sunday 9/19
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Author Topic: 767 almost lands on wrong runway at JFK Sunday 9/19  (Read 33814 times)
eastern tristar
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« on: September 20, 2010, 10:03:16 PM »

Last night I was listening to JFK tower (Sunday 9/19/10) just before 10:30pm, when I heard Aerogal 700 (GLG700) almost landed on 13R when he was supposed to land on 13L
Jetblue 1087 was taking off on 13R, Delta 122 was just told to taxi into position and hold when Delta informed the controller that Aerogal just turned and was about to land on the wrong runway, it was very scary to listen to live but the controller did a great job dealing with it, always kept his cool and even his sense of humor.  I hope someone could edit and post it (I am clueless on how to do it) it is definately worth a listen to.  Thanks.
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Hollis
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« Reply #1 on: September 21, 2010, 12:31:16 AM »

Here is the audio in real time: (un-edited)
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speedotann
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« Reply #2 on: September 21, 2010, 01:09:47 AM »

Nice Catch!
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yurtkuran
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« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2010, 11:28:38 AM »

I was onboard JetBlue 1087, listening to via the LiveATC iPhone app.   Needless to say, my increased dramatically listening to the exchange!
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joeyb747
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« Reply #4 on: September 21, 2010, 03:01:18 PM »

Great Catch!  shocked

On a side note...anyone else catch at the 42 sec mark, Delta 122 asks if he still wants them to LINE UP AND WAIT, and the controller says "Yeah go ahead, POSITION AND HOLD"...  wink  cheesy 

Avherald:

http://avherald.com/h?article=431385e9&opt=0

Below is a pic of Aerogal Boeing 767-322/ER HC-CIJ (cn 25287/449), the aircraft operating 700 heavy that eve:
« Last Edit: September 21, 2010, 03:13:44 PM by joeyb747 » Logged

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svoynick
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« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2010, 12:22:29 AM »

On a side note...anyone else catch at the 42 sec mark, Delta 122 asks if he still wants them to LINE UP AND WAIT, and the controller says "Yeah go ahead, POSITION AND HOLD"...  wink  cheesy 
Yeah, I noticed that - I wonder if that's the first posting of a U.S. "Line up and wait" call on here...  Although I suppose it was not given by the controller as a clearance.
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w0x0f
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« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2010, 12:40:28 AM »

On a side note...anyone else catch at the 42 sec mark, Delta 122 asks if he still wants them to LINE UP AND WAIT, and the controller says "Yeah go ahead, POSITION AND HOLD"...  wink  cheesy 
Yeah, I noticed that - I wonder if that's the first posting of a U.S. "Line up and wait" call on here...  Although I suppose it was not given by the controller as a clearance.

Yes, and this would be the first time in the USA that there was ever any confusion over a "position and hold clearance," or was that, "line up and wait."  We must thank those who have brought this to our shores. 

Of course, if it was up to the NTSB, we would not use position and hold/line up and wait, at all. Try to imagine how that would work.

w0x0f 
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Robert Larson
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« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2010, 09:13:29 AM »

"Check out the right window guys."   cheesy
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svoynick
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« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2010, 11:19:27 AM »

Yes, and this would be the first time in the USA that there was ever any confusion over a "position and hold clearance," or was that, "line up and wait."  We must thank those who have brought this to our shores. 
Are you implying that there was any "confusion" or failure of communication around the position & hold clearance?  I don't believe there was, nor was that the point of my post.  It seems clear to me that Delta 122 and tower were communicating and understanding each other just fine; in addition Delta performed his duty of looking around, and communicated his concerns to the controller who responded to the situation immediately.  I don't put this situation at the foot of "confusion over a position and hold clearance" or terminology at all - it is completely about confusion by the landing aircraft.  Does anyone hear it differently than I do?
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flyflyfly
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« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2010, 04:54:51 PM »

Yes, and this would be the first time in the USA that there was ever any confusion over a "position and hold clearance," or was that, "line up and wait."  We must thank those who have brought this to our shores. 
Are you implying that there was any "confusion" or failure of communication around the position & hold clearance?  I don't believe there was, nor was that the point of my post.  It seems clear to me that Delta 122 and tower were communicating and understanding each other just fine;

No worries guys, slow down, it's only a week from now for the line-up & wait vs p&h fun to really start!  grin  It's not an issue this week - and certainly not here.
There was confusion - but only in the Aerogal cockpit (and a lot of it!).
Both, Delta 122 & tower performed really great. Good to see these pilots sharp and awake - and not relying on their clearance to enter the runway alone. And this is what pilots are really trained for: do the same procedures over and over again. Yet, always be prepared for the unexpected - be ready. Kudos to this professional Delta crew!
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w0x0f
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« Reply #10 on: September 24, 2010, 04:33:47 PM »

Yes, and this would be the first time in the USA that there was ever any confusion over a "position and hold clearance," or was that, "line up and wait."  We must thank those who have brought this to our shores. 
Are you implying that there was any "confusion" or failure of communication around the position & hold clearance?  I don't believe there was, nor was that the point of my post.  It seems clear to me that Delta 122 and tower were communicating and understanding each other just fine; in addition Delta performed his duty of looking around, and communicated his concerns to the controller who responded to the situation immediately.  I don't put this situation at the foot of "confusion over a position and hold clearance" or terminology at all - it is completely about confusion by the landing aircraft.  Does anyone hear it differently than I do?

I was referring to another thread.  Just getting ready for next week.  No one was confused in this situation except Aerogal.

w0x0f
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Fryy
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« Reply #11 on: September 24, 2010, 04:54:45 PM »

I tried to pull the archive for final but couldn't get it to come up. I ended up just getting the audio from tower right when GLG700 checks in. This clip is from the archives so it sounds a little bit clearer than the original post.
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svoynick
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« Reply #12 on: September 24, 2010, 10:27:20 PM »

Yes, and this would be the first time in the USA that there was ever any confusion over a "position and hold clearance," or was that, "line up and wait."  We must thank those who have brought this to our shores. 
Are you implying that there was any "confusion" or failure of communication around the position & hold clearance?  I don't believe there was, nor was that the point of my post.  It seems clear to me that Delta 122 and tower were communicating and understanding each other just fine; in addition Delta performed his duty of looking around, and communicated his concerns to the controller who responded to the situation immediately.  I don't put this situation at the foot of "confusion over a position and hold clearance" or terminology at all - it is completely about confusion by the landing aircraft.  Does anyone hear it differently than I do?

I was referring to another thread.  Just getting ready for next week.  No one was confused in this situation except Aerogal.

w0x0f
Roger - thanks for clarifying...
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darlyn
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« Reply #13 on: September 26, 2010, 06:48:42 AM »

That clip was too funny, and more so in light of a recent experience I had. I was in a Cessna (as a pax) that nearly taxied into the path of a landing heavy fifteen seconds before touchdown... we were first in the line-up. Just as I happened to glance around behind us I noticed something. It took me a few seconds to register that the guy behind us was frantically flashing his landing lights and waving a phone in an attempt to keep us off the runway.

All this because ground gave us the wrong tower freq., and this was the pilot's first trip to that airport, so he assumed the perceived radio silence was SOP.

Fun was had, though Cheesy
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aviator_06
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« Reply #14 on: September 26, 2010, 03:26:01 PM »

Sounds like that Aerogal crew needs to go back to do more training.
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