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Author Topic: A little turbulance?  (Read 8139 times)
rekno13
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« on: December 17, 2009, 04:07:31 PM »

Comair 606 on approach to 31R at JFK
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rjs176cp
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« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2009, 12:05:36 AM »

Someones in a bad mood.
Any expert opinions: Is six miles always a safe following distance? Could they have been feeling wake turbulence at 6 miles?
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NY Z Pilot
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« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2009, 05:20:39 AM »

Legally all you need is 4 miles behind a 757 with a commair.
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tripp540
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« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2009, 12:19:30 PM »

 evil Grouchy!
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glencar
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« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2009, 12:55:15 PM »

Legally all you need is 4 miles behind a 757 with a commair.
No, you need 5 miles.
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joeyb747
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« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2009, 06:57:59 PM »

...at th 27 sec mark, he says " Ah we're up here in the airplane sir, but thanks for your concern."

What? That made no sense!  huh

And yes, seperation behind a B757 is five miles, as with most heavy aircraft.

And just to split hairs here...Comair is an airline...not a manufacture. The aircraft in question is a
Canadair CRJ, built by Bombardier.  wink
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djmodifyd
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« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2009, 07:23:08 PM »

no you need 4
large/heavy/b757 behind b757..look it up

unless its a heavy 757 (ie B753  or B752 w/added tip tanks) then its 5
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djmodifyd
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« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2009, 07:26:32 PM »

...at th 27 sec mark, he says " Ah we're up here in the airplane sir, but thanks for your concern."

What? That made no sense!  huh


And yes, seperation behind a B757 is five miles, as with most heavy aircraft.

And just to split hairs here...Comair is an airline...not a manufacture. The aircraft in question is a
Canadair CRJ, built by Bombardier.  wink

makes perfect sence
they were getting turb..saying they don't know if it's off the B757 or not, and the controller says "hes 6 ahead you have plenty of room"
pilot then says  "Ah we're up here in the airplane sir, but thanks for your concern" meaning we are feeling something so we are being careful, you are in the tower, we are in here trying to not endanger our lives
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joeyb747
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« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2009, 07:29:44 PM »

When you say it that way it makes sense...just came off kinda snappy of behalf of the pilot...he could have just said "We are taking it easy here."
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djmodifyd
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« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2009, 07:35:12 PM »

When you say it that way it makes sense...just came off kinda snappy of behalf of the pilot...he could have just said "We are taking it easy here."
yea i agree with you..but the tower controller didn't need to say what he did, that is probably what made the pilot say that
i would have just said "yea just do what you can" or something to that matter
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NY Z Pilot
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« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2009, 07:49:20 PM »

Its def 4 miles behind a 757.
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joeyb747
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« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2009, 07:49:46 PM »

no you need 4
large/heavy/b757 behind b757..look it up

unless its a heavy 757 (ie B753  or B752 w/added tip tanks) then its 5

When you say "b757 behind b757" are you referring to one B757 following another B757? If so, then four miles is correct. The aircraft in question in this case was a CRJ, I would classify that medium (not positive on that). If that is the case, and I'm reading the chart correctly, then the separation is five miles. This table comes form Wiki in the section on Wake Turbulence:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake_turbulence

(Sorry for the lousy copy job here... wink)

Preceding aircraft        Following aircraft                   Minimum radar separation
Super                          Super                                     4 NM
                                   Heavy                                     6 NM
                                   Medium                                   8 NM
                                   Light                                      10 NM
Heavy                         Heavy                                     4 NM
                                   Medium                                   5 NM
                                   Light                                       6 NM
Medium                      Light                                        5 NM
« Last Edit: December 18, 2009, 10:07:50 PM by joeyb747 » Logged

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joeyb747
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Nothing Like A 747!


« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2009, 08:05:42 PM »

I guess it would depend on what classification the CRJ is...

From FAA:
 
http://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/atpubs/aim/Chap7/aim0703.html

"7-3-9. Air Traffic Wake Turbulence Separations

a. Because of the possible effects of wake turbulence, controllers are required to apply no less than specified minimum separation for aircraft operating behind a heavy jet and, in certain instances, behind large nonheavy aircraft (i.e., B757 aircraft).

1. Separation is applied to aircraft operating directly behind a heavy/B757 jet at the same altitude or less than 1,000 feet below:

(a) Heavy jet behind heavy jet-4 miles.

(b) Large/heavy behind B757 - 4 miles.

(c) Small behind B757 - 5 miles.

(d) Small/large aircraft behind heavy jet - 5 miles.

2. Also, separation, measured at the time the preceding aircraft is over the landing threshold, is provided to small aircraft:

(a) Small aircraft landing behind heavy jet - 6 miles.

(b) Small aircraft landing behind B757 - 5 miles.

(c) Small aircraft landing behind large aircraft- 4 miles."
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djmodifyd
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« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2009, 08:34:12 PM »

no you need 4
large/heavy/b757 behind b757..look it up

unless its a heavy 757 (ie B753  or B752 w/added tip tanks) then its 5

When you say "b757 behind b757" are you referring to one B757 following another B757? If so, then four miles is correct. The aircraft in question in this case was a CRJ, I would classify that medium (not positeve on that). If that is the case, and I'm reading the chart correctly, then the seperation is five miles. This table comes form Wiki in the section on Wake Turbuence:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wake_turbulence

(Sorry for the lousy copy job here... wink)

Preceding aircraft        Following aircraft                   Minimum radar separation
Super                          Super                                     4 NM
                                   Heavy                                     6 NM
                                   Medium                                   8 NM
                                   Light                                      10 NM
Heavy                         Heavy                                     4 NM
                                   Medium                                   5 NM
                                   Light                                       6 NM
Medium                      Light                                        5 NM


that might be true in ICAO standards..but not here in the good ol USA
a CRJ is considered a large..and as posted above referencing the .65.  a large behind a b757 is 4 miles.  and yes when i said a b757 behind 757 i meant following.


edit..i see thats from the AIM...but its still the same in the .65
« Last Edit: December 18, 2009, 08:37:26 PM by djmodifyd » Logged
joeyb747
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Nothing Like A 747!


« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2009, 10:05:40 PM »

Guess you learn something new everyday!  grin I didn't know the CRJ was considered a large aircraft...I would have said medium...
Thanks for the info!
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