Aeromexico go around at JFK 3/13/10

[rationaljeff]

I'm sure many heard this real time, but the fear in the Aeromexico pilots voice was unnerving to me.

[cptbrw]

JFK has certainly been an interesting listen today because of the high winds.  It sounds like, on average, about 3 of 4 aircraft are going around due to winds.

[onesierrawhiskey]

Here comes an ATC question:

AMX402 announced he would need to go to 6,000 on that hdg to avoid wind shear. Tower (the controlled of Air China 981-fame, if im not mistaken) says he couldn't clear him to that altitude. AMX then acknowledges, but the next pilot says "Tower he has a windshear warning he's fighting that, so he'll do what he has to do."

Sticky situation. Does ATC treat like a TCAS advisory? Do they say "Climb to 6,000 is at your own risk", or the obviously preferable option to coordinate with approach and try to clear him to the altitude he needs?

[Pilot3033]

Here comes an ATC question:

AMX402 announced he would need to go to 6,000 on that hdg to avoid wind shear. Tower (the controlled of Air China 981-fame, if im not mistaken) says he couldn't clear him to that altitude. AMX then acknowledges, but the next pilot says "Tower he has a windshear warning he's fighting that, so he'll do what he has to do."

Sticky situation. Does ATC treat like a TCAS advisory? Do they say "Climb to 6,000 is at your own risk", or the obviously preferable option to coordinate with approach and try to clear him to the altitude he needs?

It's just a mis-communication situation. The controller isn't up there, and he doesn't know about the warning, and he obviously doesn't own the airspace at 6,000 so he needs to work with approach to figure it out, especially if there's another aircraft (or several) up there. So tower guy has to keep everyone in check, and probably because of the language/accent barrier, hasn't picked up on the fear in the AMX pilot's voice. Sounds like DAL707 stepped in because they were also getting windshear warnings (and decided to delay their take-off), and wanted to relay to the tower controller that the AMX pilot might be doing more than reassuring himself.

The AMX pilot could always say unable, and the regulations would be on his side if he needed to go higher and broke spacing, but you have to also remember that there have been situations before where pilots haven't taken such command out of fear, respect, cultural norms, or otherwise. In other words, the Delta guy is telling tower to lighten up.

Interestingly, they diverted to Bangor, and I saw a MXA flight (6 I think) divert to Montreal, and a UAE guy go to Boston. Crazy day at JFK. At one point I heard the tower say only about %50 of flights were landing.

[Dabbey]

It certainly been an interesting day listening in on JFK Tower. They were using 4R for arrivals earlier in the day and then mostly 13L for arrivals. I don't think I've heard this many missed approaches every before, though I am not a frequent listener. Many aircraft are returning to the gate after taxiing. The wind gusts are as high as 57Kts. When a pilot asked for a wind reading, the tower said their wind measuring equipment shattered on the field and they are only using estimates based on NWS readings.

David

[Pilot3033]

It certainly been an interesting day listening in on JFK Tower. They were using 4R for arrivals earlier in the day and then mostly 13L for arrivals. I don't think I've heard this many missed approaches every before, though I am not a frequent listener. Many aircraft are returning to the gate after taxiing. The wind gusts are as high as 57Kts. When a pilot asked for a wind reading, the tower said their wind measuring equipment shattered on the field and they are only using estimates based on NWS readings.

David

Quite, a QANTAS pilot who was in the pattern just called up concerned about the "estimated" winds, tower explained how it shattered and is now using NOAA updates every 5min. In the last hour 5 landings and 5 go arounds. This is interesting a) because that's a lot of missed approaches, and b) because it means many flights have been canceled. There haven't been many take-offs either due to the wind, as you say. Quite a day for sure.

[phil-s]

NWS reported "NYC/JFK Arpt 67 517 PM 3/13 ASOS" which might have been the last straw for the FAA wind sensor.  Oops, just gusted to 65-- "going the wrong way". 

At one point I saw that there were 195 listeners for KJFK tower. Pretty impressive that the server(s) can handle this.

[glencar]

I'm at home today & for that I'm glad! It sounds like hell out there right now.

[b757lvr]

NWS reported "NYC/JFK Arpt 67 517 PM 3/13 ASOS" which might have been the last straw for the FAA wind sensor.  Oops, just gusted to 65-- "going the wrong way". 

At one point I saw that there were 195 listeners for KJFK tower. Pretty impressive that the server(s) can handle this.

jfk feed seems to be down now..that sucks,  I was stuck at my pc!

[Hollis]

Aeromexico certainly wasn't the only go-around there today. I backtracked into the archives and heard one after the other 'on the go'. Some reported +/- 30 kts below 500 ft with heavy turbulence. Better safe than sorry.
(I tried that once in my little old Cessna 140 with 45 kt winds, no go, so went around and came back in for a high speed wheel landing with flaps up and tail held high after touchdown. No problem).