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Author Topic: AFR6419 not happy with Boston Center  (Read 10557 times)
Dan CZQM
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« on: June 11, 2009, 08:43:30 PM »

Eastbound AFR6419 upon entering Moncton airspace is told to change his FL.  He had just climbed to FL350 and is now told to either go FL330 or FL370.  ATC tells him he is but one going east with 180 aircrafts going west.

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Dan
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sykocus
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« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2009, 09:38:18 AM »

some times you're the windshield sometimes you're the bug...c'est la vie
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djmodifyd
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« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2009, 09:44:01 AM »

would he rather descend or hit another aircraft?

i'd pick descend

nice catch though
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kea001
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« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2009, 10:17:17 AM »

some times you're the windshield sometimes you're the bug...c'est la vie

Bwahahahaha!!! Gotta remember that one.




'Allo..Moncton Centre."
« Last Edit: June 12, 2009, 10:29:20 AM by kea001 » Logged
Dan CZQM
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« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2009, 04:26:30 PM »

yep, you can't please everyone all the time, but it sure makes for some nice liveatc postings lately!!
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Dan
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philip
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« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2009, 03:16:21 PM »

Shouldn't it be ODD's one way and even's the other...
If so...then 350, 330, 370 should be ok...
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sykocus
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« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2009, 03:30:44 PM »

Shouldn't it be ODD's one way and even's the other...
If so...then 350, 330, 370 should be ok...

Sounds like they had a lot of traffic and they had someone westbound that they had to put at 350.
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DaytonaAirport
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« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2009, 02:39:21 AM »

would he rather descend or hit another aircraft?

i'd pick descend

nice catch though
i'd pick a mid-air collision grin
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DaytonaAirport
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« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2009, 02:41:34 AM »

Shouldn't it be ODD's one way and even's the other...
If so...then 350, 330, 370 should be ok...
I'l go with a 350 (unless there's another jet, then it's 330)
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Braun
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« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2009, 07:21:12 PM »

Shouldn't it be ODD's one way and even's the other...
If so...then 350, 330, 370 should be ok...
Depends if on of the aircrafts are RVSM or not, if not 2000' separation so 330 and 340 wont work with two aircraft opposite direction!
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Dan CZQM
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« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2009, 07:46:09 PM »


[/quote]Depends if on of the aircrafts are RVSM or not, if not 2000' separation so 330 and 340 wont work with two aircraft opposite direction!
[/quote]

Yes RVSM is in operation.  The problem is that coming off oceanic, or for that matter going to Oceanic,  the traffic is so heavy that the neodd/sweven does not always apply over Gander and Moncton FIR for overflights.  If you listen to the feed after1pmEST and again in the evening (locally) after 7pmEST you will hear all sort of pilot requests as they "jockey" for the best ride at the best altitudes.
In this case, the pilot requested and got FL350 from Boston, but when he got to Moncton 20 minutes later they needed him out of the way.  He was just pissed that Boston allowed his request.  But ATC always tries to accomodate the pilots if it is safe to do so.

Dan
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Dan
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sykocus
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« Reply #11 on: June 17, 2009, 11:38:31 PM »

Shouldn't it be ODD's one way and even's the other...
If so...then 350, 330, 370 should be ok...
Depends if on of the aircrafts are RVSM or not, if not 2000' separation so 330 and 340 wont work with two aircraft opposite direction!

if there was any kind of traffic it's hard to imagine them letting anyone that's not RVSM certified above 280.
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B777ER
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« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2009, 03:04:12 AM »

Eastbound AFR6419 upon entering Moncton airspace is told to change his FL.  He had just climbed to FL350 and is now told to either go FL330 or FL370.  ATC tells him he is but one going east with 180 aircrafts going west.



That French pilot was totally unprofessional.  Just do what you're told.  It's not Boston Center's fault - surely there was a reason for climbing him to FL350.  I wouldn't want to be a passenger in the back if the guy up front is questioning the controller's instructions.  Don't ask why - just do it.

You will never be a pax on an AF flight with a number of 6419. Those are AF's cargo flight numbers. Either a 744F or one of their new 777F's.
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mikenftsmith
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« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2009, 09:12:42 PM »

That French pilot was totally unprofessional.  Just do what you're told.  It's not Boston Center's fault - surely there was a reason for climbing him to FL350.  I wouldn't want to be a passenger in the back if the guy up front is questioning the controller's instructions.  Don't ask why - just do it.
[/

Its the responsibility of the pilot to question any atc command that he or she is unsure about the reason or it might put the safety of his aircraft in question.Yes,pilots and controllers must work together but  the pilot has the final authority over his aircraft. I wouldnt want to be a passenger in the back if "the guy up front"didnt ask why,just did it.   
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wlewis06
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« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2009, 10:38:36 AM »

That French pilot was totally unprofessional.  Just do what you're told.  It's not Boston Center's fault - surely there was a reason for climbing him to FL350.  I wouldn't want to be a passenger in the back if the guy up front is questioning the controller's instructions.  Don't ask why - just do it.
[/

Its the responsibility of the pilot to question any atc command that he or she is unsure about the reason or it might put the safety of his aircraft in question.Yes,pilots and controllers must work together but  the pilot has the final authority over his aircraft. I wouldnt want to be a passenger in the back if "the guy up front"didnt ask why,just did it.   
The pilot's questioning of the controller wasn't necessary.  Maybe the climb then descent was inconvenient but I didn't hear anything indicating it would be unsafe to comply with the instruction.  If there was an impending collision and the AFR pilot decided to question the descent instruction the results could have been castastrophic.  What if AFR didn't have a visual on the other traffic or on TCAS?  If there's no reason not to comply, then the pilot should comply with the controller's instructions.
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