American 268 overrun at KORD

[Hollis]

Interesting situation. Typically known as a 'hot landing'.

[badger634]

Is there a reason why they gave them the shortest runway, in a (slight) tailwind?

[jahulian]

I'm actually really confused as to what happened

[cessna157]

I'm actually really confused as to what happened

This is what I've heard.  Not sure how much is true.

B752 flying overhead lost some/all electrics and was down to bare essentials.  Diverted into ORD.  Landed 22R.  Something else happened on landing and they blew 1 or both nose tires and went off the end of the runway by a few feet.

[Hollis]

Check the 'Listener Forums' for related info re ORD incident.
As Cessna157 just alluded to, I also gather that they had lost all or most of their cockpit elctronics/displays and diverted to ORD as a result. Sounds like the pilot was a bit concerned about airspeed during approach, so landed a bit faster than usual. He then presumably 'stood on the brakes' and dropped the nose too hard, blowing the nose tires, then used all the remaining runway and then some before stopping.
(Reminds me of the old saying regarding final approach speeds - 'when in doubt, add 5 knots for the wife, 5 for the kids, and 5 more for me').  

[cessna157]

While I don't want to armchair quarterback this too much, I'll just add a small point (yes, I know that's a contradiction).  My disclaimer is the pilots of this flight are the only ones who fully understood the nature of the situation and made decisions based upon their knowledge. 

But, in my experience, the complete loss of electrical power isn't necessarily a reason to add a few knots of speed.  I don't know the 757 systems at all, so I don't know if the flaps are hydraulic or electric.  On the 2 models I fly, the flaps are electric, but we could lose all 3 generators and they'll still work above 145 kts on the ADG.

22R is a fairly short runway, especially if you add the 9R LAHSO.  Maybe this wasn't the best choice of runway for this occasion.  I just find it odd that they apparently waited until on final before declaring an emergency. 

[mhawke]

presumably 'stood on the brakes' and dropped the nose too hard, blowing the nose tires, then used all the remaining runway and then some before stopping.
 

They were past the end of the runway, but there still asphalt available.  The plane actually veered off the left side after the end of runway. 

I happend to be traveling through ORD later in the day and saw the plane as we taxied by.  I could see rubber on the runway (tire tracks) that veered from centerline to where the plane was.  I would make an uneducated guess that the plane veered when the tire blew...

[goowe]

Local control did a great job when the pilot declared an emergency; he was quick to cancel the approaches behind the 757...

[ishtar]

http://www.nerdseyeview.com/blog/2008/09/22/unscheduled-landing/

[Fryy]

Found this photo of the incident.

[Adrian8]

Good clip.

Local control did a great job when the pilot declared an emergency; he was quick to cancel the approaches behind the 757...

Only the best at ORD.

[lrjtcaptain]

Well, I am a controller at ORD and I was there for this.

Pilots wanted the nearest runway and as this occured while over Michigan enroute to JFK they just turned around and lined up with 22L.   As for the LAHSO comment.  American doesn't LAHSO at ORD, and second.....if you heard the local controller tell the crew that the full length of the runway was available. 

They came in fast because I was informed by a friend of the FO on this flight that they had almost no elevator trim control so the hot approach speed was a necessity to maintin the pitch they required.   It also didn't help that the anti skid didn't work either.

[mhawke]

Well, I am a controller at ORD and I was there for this.

Pilots wanted the nearest runway and as this occured while over Michigan enroute to JFK they just turned around and lined up with 22L.   As for the LAHSO comment.  American doesn't LAHSO at ORD, and second.....if you heard the local controller tell the crew that the full length of the runway was available. 

They came in fast because I was informed by a friend of the FO on this flight that they had almost no elevator trim control so the hot approach speed was a necessity to maintin the pitch they required.   It also didn't help that the anti skid didn't work either.

http://aircrewbuzz.com/2008/10/ntsb-preliminary-report-on-american.html


The NTSB report is interesting reading.  Makes you wonder some when you are a frequent passenger like me, like how do you justify the decision to continue the flight on battery?

Anyways, the initial report is pretty good at explaining why the shorter runway and overshoot.

Mike

[Unbeliever]

The NTSB report is interesting reading.  Makes you wonder some when you are a frequent passenger like me, like how do you justify the decision to continue the flight on battery?

From other reports I read, they thought they were in an ETOPS 757, but instead were in a regular 757.  The ETOPS 757 has one additional backup charger.

--Carlos V.

[mhawke]

From other reports I read, they thought they were in an ETOPS 757, but instead were in a regular 757.  The ETOPS 757 has one additional backup charger.

--Carlos V.

I guess that doesn't make a great amount of sense to me either.  If the electrical system is such that they have to switch to battery, there wouldn't be anything to power another battery charger.  And the "procedure" said batteries are dead in 30 minutes.  You follow the procedure unless you have a very good safety reason not to.  It would be hard to argue that it was safer to continue the flight.

Mike