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Author Topic: Another F-Bomb Dropped in Toronto  (Read 10387 times)
Pearson
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« on: February 05, 2007, 12:43:38 AM »

Those darned stuck mics.  A pilot just dropped another big F-bomb on the Toronto feed with a stuck mic...good thing it wasn't directed at a female pilot.  I'll have the clip tomorrow if no one else does...in the meantime, about 10 minutes into the Feb 5 0530Z recording.
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Pygmie
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« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2007, 02:52:11 AM »

Here it is.
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Studentpilo
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« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2007, 04:17:21 PM »

Would pilots be equally reprimanded for improper language on freq?

I just ask because ATC have strict phraseology standards while pilots can typically go with whatever works. In the US anyway, pilots seem to have lower standards for frequency etiquette.
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2007, 04:24:16 PM »

I just ask because ATC have strict phraseology standards while pilots can typically go with whatever works. In the US anyway, pilots seem to have lower standards for frequency etiquette.

Do you have any working examples of your theory?  Especially the part that compares US pilots to non-US pilots?
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
Pygmie
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« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2007, 04:50:31 PM »

Can't speak for the U.S., but in Canada pilots have to take the same radio exam, and get the same radio operators certificate as controllers, so they are subject to the same rules regarding fines and the like.  The only problem is, it's much harder to prove which pilot it was on which plane then it is to prove a controller mistake.
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Pearson
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« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2007, 05:46:34 PM »

Here it is.

Thanks for posting it, I was on a different computer last night and didn't have the capabilities to record it.
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canuck101
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« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2007, 10:22:21 PM »

Would pilots be equally reprimanded for improper language on freq?

I'm pretty sure this one came from a pilot
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blakman7
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« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2007, 11:37:19 AM »

Can someone tell me where on the clip there is foul language? Maybe it is just me but I can't hear anything foul, I just hear radio transmissions. Thanks.
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2007, 11:44:10 AM »

Can someone tell me where on the clip there is foul language? Maybe it is just me but I can't hear anything foul, I just hear radio transmissions. Thanks.

54 seconds into the audio clip linked in the second post of this thread.
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
blakman7
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« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2007, 04:23:42 PM »

yeah sorry, defintely listening to the wrong clip on my iPod.
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XTSKid
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« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2007, 06:51:28 PM »

In the US anyway, pilots seem to have lower standards for frequency etiquette.


Please explain.
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Check Airman
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« Reply #11 on: February 07, 2007, 07:05:21 PM »

it isn't etiquette that's lacking, it's lack of discipline and lack of adherence to regulations stipulating that standard phraseology be used.

I can't generalize, but in the ATC clips from the various countries I've listened to, ATC is usually more professional with the RT. Flying in the US, on occasion the RT is just appalling. I can't tell you how many times I’ve heard pilots say something like "NXXY are-tee" as opposed to using the phonetic alphabet...or how about "contact tower on nineteen twenty five". try "cleared for the loc-d (localiser dme) to the left".

The CVR for the Comair crash in Kentucky has ATC issuing the clearance:

"...cleared for takeoff."

to which the PNF replies:

"cleared for takeoff"

Neither party states the RW designation. Not pointing any fingers at the crash cause here, just citing an example.

I'm not at all saying that my RT is 100% perfect all the time. i get lazy and unprofessional sometimes too, but make an effort to avoid it. ATC sure adheres to the rules better than we do.
« Last Edit: February 07, 2007, 07:09:04 PM by Check Airman » Logged
Studentpilo
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« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2007, 04:16:45 PM »



"...cleared for takeoff."

to which the PNF replies:

"cleared for takeoff"

Neither party states the RW designation. Not pointing any fingers at the crash cause here, just citing an example.



According to 7110.65 if only one runway is active for departures, the runway number is not a necessary part of the takeoff clearance. Now I don't know if the shorter runway WAS active that day. If it was the controller certainly was in violation of 7110.65

As to my remarks, its something I notice a lot just when flying around.

"COA123 descend and maintain 3000"
"Down to 3 COA123"

"JAL423 Mantain 180 Kts to the Outer Marker"
"180 to the marker, JAL423"

Its more than enough to give a readback, but it certainly is more lax.
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Check Airman
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« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2007, 06:20:07 PM »

Is that reference re not using the runway designation from the FAR's? I've never heard of it, but if so, I hope this incident gets the rules changed ASAP.
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Studentpilo
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« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2007, 08:31:59 PM »

Yup its right there in 7110.65

3-9-9. TAKEOFF CLEARANCE

a. When only one runway is active, issue takeoff clearance.

PHRASEOLOGY-
CLEARED FOR TAKEOFF.
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