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Author Topic: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke  (Read 37039 times)
Arthur McKenzie
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« Reply #105 on: March 07, 2010, 03:55:46 AM »

If the air traffic controller functions can be carried out safely by (inexperieced) kids then the pay rate should be reduced for all controllers to $4.95 per hour. Similarly the captain and crew's wages and overall airfares should be reduced by the same amount.

If, on the other hand, there is a serious safety issue involved then the crew and controller should be sacked.

In the meantime I wouldn't fly with the (Air Mexico?) airline ... ever!
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sykocus
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« Reply #106 on: March 07, 2010, 07:05:40 AM »

If the air traffic controller functions can be carried out safely by (inexperieced) kids then the pay rate should be reduced for all controllers to $4.95 per hour. Similarly the captain and crew's wages and overall airfares should be reduced by the same amount.

You seem to be insinuating that the child was performing ATC functions.

1. The child was repeating what he was being told to say. He was performing air traffic functions just as much as the radio receiver in the plane's cockpit does when it receives the radio transmission from ATC and plays it though the pilots headset or speaker.

2. The child was repeating take off clearances and frequency changes. That's about 1% of an Air Traffic Controllers duties.

So I really hope that's not what you were insinuating, because that would sound really foolish.
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Yesterday I couldn't spell air traffic controller. Today I R one.
ogogog
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« Reply #107 on: March 07, 2010, 08:29:05 AM »

dont bother replying to all those first posters popping up lately. they give me a headace.
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beechsundowner
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« Reply #108 on: March 07, 2010, 08:40:25 AM »


You seem to be insinuating that the child was performing ATC functions. 

2. The child was repeating take off clearances and frequency changes. That's about 1% of an Air Traffic Controllers duties.

So I really hope that's not what you were insinuating, because that would sound really foolish.

Unfortunately what Arthur posted is the exact public image portrayed in this event. 

Kinda similar to a passenger percerption of a commercial airline flight.  They have no clue what it takes for that flight to get off the ground.  They just see the guy with the big hat get into the plane unaware of the prep time before the flight or other duties required to get the flight off the ground
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joelhf
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« Reply #109 on: March 07, 2010, 11:39:06 PM »

So, I came across a few posts, read an article somewhere and heard the recording on a website. Not much of an investigation but I wonder this: If Obama has a 10 year old daughter and takes him to the White House and sits him in his chair and tell him "Kid, this is the Medicare application we use here and I must click this little button here so everybody gets coverage this month. Click it and you will be providing coverage to all Medicare users" and the kid clicks the button, does that mean we should perform a coup d'etat on Obama and declare him unfit to fulfill his duties? Do we really need to assume he handled total and absolute power on every nuclear warhead on the country to a 10 year old child cos she clicked on something unrelated? Do we have to assume the White House was emptied and rendered powerless? Should we take away the presidents pay and determine his responsibilities can be undertaken by, lets say, a 10 year old?
I mean, i remember my dad used to let me stamp his signature on the letters his office issued when he worked at a university and as a child I felt empowered, but no decision was left to my judgement because of that little action. Perhaps we are all being childish.

I heard the recording and it seems that 1) pilots agreed. 2) the guy was there in the frequency (you can hear him too).

I've had the chance of doing on the job training to new ATCs and trust me sitting there with the headset on telling someone what to do or having to start talking right away because better instructions need to be issued IMMEDIATELY, if maybe delicate, is not something so newsworthy.

But being and ATC and having thought of all that I cannot imagine the big bosses at FAA and NATCA are unaware of it. I'm thinking is this a matter of public perception and that for the people to feel safe all this circus needs to be put in place. The show must go on if we want people to feel safe flying and since the 'news' has been leaked we need to deal with it. Also someone said in this thread that the controller pay should be dropped if it was 'nothing'. So public perception is that if this is really unimportant then the work an ATC does is easy and hence their pay should be less. If public perception is such then even ATCs and even government agencies need to punish the guy so it does look like a big issue and people don't start thinking that cos in a controlled environment a father taking a kid to work let him do ONE of the many things he gets paid for then they should get paid $4.95.
There's also the possibility of some important transgression occurring if security is relaxed. So an example must be made even if this thing is unimportant.

Aeroflot's accident was a sad one, but due to the nature of the way ATC and pilots work and the way the tower is organised in such a way that a kid with a headset on next to an ATC MAY be supervised I would go as far as to say that if the supervision is not interrupted then the results won't, by any means, be the same. I mean, physically an aircraft cockpit and a control tower are REALLY different.
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erikz
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« Reply #110 on: March 08, 2010, 05:31:42 AM »

All of this is clearly ridiculous. This guy should be fired, he's giving away a 120k Euro responsibility (that's what an ATC gets paid @ EHAM) to a 10y old.

This makes me sick. What's even worse is, is that all the pilots seem to follow orders by a voice that's clearly from a kid, not from an adult.
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davalos08
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« Reply #111 on: March 08, 2010, 09:59:35 PM »

there are bigger safety issues on the airline industry than this event, I dont know why people is so crazy about this, after all the kid was in supervision from the ATC controller.

Do you know how many new controllers exercise ATC privileges daily? What would you say if instead of that kid, was a newbie ATC??, I think is quite the same thing... Both are under supervision, both are being told what to say, both are closely supervised, so what is the big problem?? does that kid talks on freq every day? c'mon lets focus on real problems in everyday flying.

I think the FAA has bigger problems to work on than focus on this thing.... chillout, ATC screw ups can be received from either a kid or an experienced controller
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Adrian8
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« Reply #112 on: March 08, 2010, 11:56:25 PM »

This is hilarious: "We have a slew of people whose sum total of . . . experience is, maybe they were on an airplane once," he said."

Read more: http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/ny_skies_out_of_control_qfwTTA9m3PH8gTJ4rOsk9J#ixzz0heUczmFT

To the people who have come here just to make trollish comments... you might as well leave.
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tremendous
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« Reply #113 on: March 09, 2010, 06:35:18 AM »

(in the power utility business)
Just my $.02 from an arm-chair wannabe private pilot.
Thanks.  But we have enough spare change thrown in by qualified individuals. 

The general concensus on most boards is that pilots and controllers just don't give a hoot.  And the folks who are getting their panties in a bunch are the folks like yourself....pretty much the same folks the media is targeting.

Lets break down this incident: Was the child CONTROLLING aircraft? No. The dad was. Was the kid parroting what his dad told him to say? Yes. Was this unprofessional? Slightly.....although the jetBlue crew seemed to not think so, nor did any other pilots on freq. Was the dad wearing a headset that he could have stepped in and corrected any stumbling the kid could have done? Yes...in a heartbeat. Did this incident happen at one of the slowest times at JFK? Yes. Would this have ever happened during a high-saturation time? Not in a million years. Was this unsafe? Not in the LEAST!!! Now, lets not generalize here, I wanna know from those of you who think it was unsafe WHY it was unsafe?

In one of the two aircraft I fly, the right seat is a PASSENGER seat. (PC-12).  Now, here is a non-qualified individual (lets pretend it's you), with a full set of controls in front of him, and his/her buddies in the back.  This can become an extremely distracting situation when the weather is good and workload is low, nevermind when the weather goes down and I'm on the arrival or departure into TEB.  But I take steps to mitigate the distraction including a full "sterile cockpit" briefing. And I will even utilize the right seat pax from time to time in assisting me with setting the right side altimeter, handing me charts, etc...

Now, here we are, fat dumb and happy in the high 20's.  I've turned his headset mic back on, and we are conversing normally. Workload is extremely low, the frequency is fairly dead.  Now, I anticipate a handoff to Atlanta Center, explain to my right seater that, shortly, we are going to get handed off to Atlanta center on 128.25.  At this point, he knows our callsign, has heard about 15-20 handoffs, and knows the jist of what to say.  I tell him: "As soon as center comes on and says 'Pilatus NXXXXX contact Atlanta Center now 128.25', push THAT little button and say '128.25 Pilatus NXXXXX'...ok?"  And he does it perfectly.  Lets say he stumbles a bit, or messes it up some how....WHAT NOW?  OH JESUS!!  WE'RE ALL DEAD!!!Oh, wait a minute, I have the overriding mic button and repeat the handoff in a nanosecond.

The above is pretty much the exact same thing that took place in the JFK tower cab last week.


Great post. As a non-aviator I'm sick of other non-aviators rolling on here and condeming this controllers actions simply because they read it in a paper. Thanks for the perfect response to them.
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tremendous
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« Reply #114 on: March 09, 2010, 06:41:15 AM »

If the air traffic controller functions can be carried out safely by (inexperieced) kids then the pay rate should be reduced for all controllers to $4.95 per hour. Similarly the captain and crew's wages and overall airfares should be reduced by the same amount.

If, on the other hand, there is a serious safety issue involved then the crew and controller should be sacked.

In the meantime I wouldn't fly with the (Air Mexico?) airline ... ever!

I'm sure you'll hurry back to explain exactly why you won't be flying Air Mexico? Ah I know - It's because upon hearing a child's voice from the tower he didn't immediately crash his plane into said tower to teach the kid and his father a lesson. Right? Because I can't think of any other reason.
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ishtar
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« Reply #115 on: March 09, 2010, 04:54:50 PM »

Xenophobia comes to mind.
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tucraceman
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« Reply #116 on: March 09, 2010, 10:05:38 PM »

All of this is clearly ridiculous. This guy should be fired, he's giving away a 120k Euro responsibility (that's what an ATC gets paid @ EHAM) to a 10y old.

This makes me sick. What's even worse is, is that all the pilots seem to follow orders by a voice that's clearly from a kid, not from an adult.
What makes me sick is you obviously have no idea how to read.
~D
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dave
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« Reply #117 on: March 09, 2010, 10:25:05 PM »

This discussion is over.
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