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| | |-+  anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke
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Author Topic: anyone know whos kid that was at jfk tower today? what a joke  (Read 40100 times)
djmodifyd
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« Reply #90 on: March 05, 2010, 10:54:42 AM »

Well put Mr Larson.

No one is to blame but the controller himself.

   Bring you kid to work day does not mean let your kid do your job day.  Accidents are almost never due to one single cause.  It makes no sense to add a wild card like a kid making transmissions no matter how well done to the mix.   

This blaming the media for blowing things out of proportion is misguided at best.   In what world would kids transmitting instructions on the radio at JFK not be news.    I still can't fathom what else the controller thought would happen.     

if you want to blame someone...you can also blame the CIC/SUP that allowed it to happen....
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robertsham
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« Reply #91 on: March 05, 2010, 11:18:19 AM »

Well put Mr Larson.

No one is to blame but the controller himself.

   Bring you kid to work day does not mean let your kid do your job day.  Accidents are almost never due to one single cause.  It makes no sense to add a wild card like a kid making transmissions no matter how well done to the mix.   

This blaming the media for blowing things out of proportion is misguided at best.   In what world would kids transmitting instructions on the radio at JFK not be news.    I still can't fathom what else the controller thought would happen.     
you may also blame the FAA for they didn't forbidden the children get close to the control panel, let say... 10CM?
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shakenama
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« Reply #92 on: March 05, 2010, 02:52:36 PM »

It's one thing to bring your kids to work to see what you do in the tower (which I think is great and commendable)... it's another to have him on the radio directing departing aircraft carrying 150+ passengers.

The FAA considers this unprofessional (even as the kid did a great job on the radio), but it's a possible distraction... one on which the FAA prohibits.

If this was a GA airport, and not an International one such as JFK (ave 70 flts/hr... PLUS the alternate traffic pattern due to the Bay Rwy closed ), it prob would've been overlooked
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ishtar
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« Reply #93 on: March 05, 2010, 05:17:28 PM »

Quote
PLUS the alternate traffic pattern due to the Bay Rwy closed
God, if the bay rwy (31L) was closed during this time, that'd be real news. Think before you post please.
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sykocus
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« Reply #94 on: March 05, 2010, 06:16:44 PM »

You're all right. FAA really needs to lighten up a little bit and if they don't want something like this to happen, shouldn't they ban all visitors to the control tower?

And that's exactly what they did... they banned all visitors to all FAA facilities until further notice.

I always that that the FAA restricted visitors from all facilities permanently following the 9/11 attacks? Sorry if I am mistaken.

nope...we had tours all the time.
As of a couple days ago no visitors are allowed in the operating area's anymore, that is unless they have a work related purpose (IE, me going to a different facility and touring for some reason).
its the normal knee jerk reaction of the FAA...but the GENOT is only for 90 days, so thats when i assume normal tours will be allowed again

while i hope you're right, i have a bad feeling that's just the length of the they're giving themselves to publish an official notice or worse yet, a change to the 7210.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2010, 06:21:32 PM by sykocus » Logged

Yesterday I couldn't spell air traffic controller. Today I R one.
davalos08
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« Reply #95 on: March 05, 2010, 06:54:17 PM »

that kid really know how to talk on freq jejeje
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tucraceman
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« Reply #96 on: March 05, 2010, 08:34:28 PM »

I can't believe the amount of people who are not controllers or pilots who are ready to sacrifice this guy's career over this.  Angers me.
~D
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jimmyzmac
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« Reply #97 on: March 05, 2010, 09:04:16 PM »

Innocent and harmless? This time maybe. So it was all cute for daddy to have his 10 year old play on the headset and talk to pilots - even if repeating commands verbatim. Many are saying this is not a big deal, but this really is a BIG DEAL for one reason:

The pilots on the other end hearing a 10 year old child giving clearances, and actually following the commands without knowing who is issuing them. As a pilot, if I heard a little kid give me a command, I would immediately ask for the control tower supervisor...questioning the command I was given. I would have also questioned if the call even came from the tower, as anyone with an Icom handheld can key up and talk to pilots. This is what the first pilot should have done, then there would not have been four more correspondences.

Controller Daddy: Stupid stupid. Maybe this might be accepted in some remote podunk airfield, but at JFK? Dude - JFK!!! Sorry...I have no mercy.
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pgarside
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« Reply #98 on: March 05, 2010, 10:56:59 PM »



Lets say he stumbles a bit, or messes it up some how....WHAT NOW?  OH JESUS!!  WE'RE ALL DEAD!!!Oh, wait a minute, I have the overriding mic button and repeat the handoff in a nanosecond.

The above is pretty much the exact same thing that took place in the JFK tower cab last week.


Exactly!

Even more proof that every one of us who are pilots have experienced: Your first time on the frequency.  I can remember mine perfectly.  Even though I must have run through that taxi request and takeoff clearance a million times in my head, I completely butchered them both.  What happened? It got correct by my CFI, and the tower had a good laugh at my expence.  That is the worst that could have happened in this JFK situation.

Both of our situations were completely safe and (contrary to Mr. Larson's comment) completely legal.  Im sure you werent opperating commercially when your friend was in the right seat, so if you as PIC feel that it doesnt pose a threat to safety, letting your friend transmit over the radio is perfectly legal.

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beechsundowner
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WWW
« Reply #99 on: March 06, 2010, 08:36:41 AM »

On air conversation about JFK controller - Video



I wanted to go to a new airport.  While on KJAN approach frequency, discussion ensued about the recent incident at JFK.  It wouldn't surprise me that the feelings the approach controller conveyed in the video represented most ATC controllers.  I am also glad he didn't lose his style of personal style of handling traffic and humor smiley

6 minute video includes take off from KMBO, initial contact with approach and conversation above, landing KIDL and landing KMBO
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tucraceman
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« Reply #100 on: March 06, 2010, 01:13:04 PM »

Innocent and harmless? This time maybe. So it was all cute for daddy to have his 10 year old play on the headset and talk to pilots - even if repeating commands verbatim. Many are saying this is not a big deal, but this really is a BIG DEAL for one reason:

The pilots on the other end hearing a 10 year old child giving clearances, and actually following the commands without knowing who is issuing them. As a pilot, if I heard a little kid give me a command, I would immediately ask for the control tower supervisor...questioning the command I was given. I would have also questioned if the call even came from the tower, as anyone with an Icom handheld can key up and talk to pilots. This is what the first pilot should have done, then there would not have been four more correspondences.

Controller Daddy: Stupid stupid. Maybe this might be accepted in some remote podunk airfield, but at JFK? Dude - JFK!!! Sorry...I have no mercy.

Once again...someone who seems to have no information.  If you read the news or heard the conversations you would know that the pilots were warned that the child would be speaking. 

Now remember, controllers give instructions, not commands.  The pilot has COMMAND of the aircraft.  As a pilot, you would know that.

~D
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davalos08
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« Reply #101 on: March 06, 2010, 02:29:51 PM »

tucraceman you are right, there is a warning before, the pilots all know what is going on, I think honestly that is not a big deal, first everyone was advised, second they are under supervision, third the are controlling ground and tower, I think a very big deal would have been a kid talking on JFK approach, or center o something of that sort.

There are bigger problems in the aviation industry to focus on this
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athaker
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« Reply #102 on: March 06, 2010, 02:57:43 PM »

Here's the real story:

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/ny_skies_out_of_control_qfwTTA9m3PH8gTJ4rOsk9J
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qsecofr
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« Reply #103 on: March 06, 2010, 04:29:30 PM »

nope...we had tours all the time.
As of a couple days ago no visitors are allowed in the operating area's anymore, that is unless they have a work related purpose (IE, me going to a different facility and touring for some reason).
its the normal knee jerk reaction of the FAA...but the GENOT is only for 90 days, so thats when i assume normal tours will be allowed again

I am disappointed in this reaction by the FAA.  I believe that student pilots can learn some valuable lessons from a tower visit.  It helps cure the "the controllers are out to get me" mentality that sometimes develops with pilots.  During my student pilot days, I had a couple of lessons with a Tower Controller who is a CFII.  I learned some valuable lessons regarding ATC by flying with him.  Those lessons have helped me in a few situations.

Hopefully the FAA realizes the benefits of tours and doesn't make the GENOT permanent.
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aevins
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« Reply #104 on: March 06, 2010, 09:33:17 PM »


+1
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