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Author Topic: ASH 7256 Emergency at KJFK  (Read 12369 times)
joeyb747
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« Reply #15 on: March 01, 2009, 09:57:23 PM »

KJET100:

No sir, I am not a pilot. I'm a wrench!  grin I guess my point is he said he didn't have "time" to set up the approach. What if weather conditions were such that an instrument approach would be required? Is a VOR/DME a more complex approach then a standard ILS?
« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 07:17:57 PM by joeyb747 » Logged

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joeyb747
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« Reply #16 on: March 02, 2009, 07:26:19 PM »

I am curious about what would happen in that situation in poor weather conditions. If someone out there could enlighten me, that would be great! I would suppose in IMC conditions, you would use the ILS, since, if I'm correct here, a VOR/DME only tells you distance from the field. Is that correct?
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KJET100
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« Reply #17 on: March 03, 2009, 06:45:10 AM »

I realized how smarmy I sounded and man, i swear its never my intention. I think the keyboard has this filter that makes me sound like a smart alleck everytime i open my chops. Wink

BTW, please dont call me sir, it makes me blush and makes me feel old. I'm only 27 Wink I have never made a VOR/DME approach in a regional outside of a simulator.
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joeyb747
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« Reply #18 on: March 03, 2009, 05:54:05 PM »

I realized how smarmy I sounded and man, i swear its never my intention. I think the keyboard has this filter that makes me sound like a smart alleck everytime i open my chops. Wink

BTW, please dont call me sir, it makes me blush and makes me feel old. I'm only 27 Wink I have never made a VOR/DME approach in a regional outside of a simulator.

No worries mate!

« Last Edit: March 03, 2009, 06:06:05 PM by joeyb747 » Logged

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joeyb747
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« Reply #19 on: March 03, 2009, 07:26:17 PM »

And let me rephrase my above question. The pilot said he didn't have time to set up the approach and opted for the visual. Weather conditions allowed him to take that option. What would happen in a situation where the didn't have time to set up for the approach, but weather conditions required an instrument approach? If the airplane needed to land NOW(total thrust loss, electrical failure, nav eqiup failure), can the tower talk the airplane down? Radar, or something along those lines? I think they have that capability, but I'm not sure...
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cessna157
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« Reply #20 on: March 03, 2009, 08:21:24 PM »

Well, you're starting to get into the pilotage of the emergency there. It depends on the emergency.  If it requires an immediate landing (smoke/fire in the cabin, aircraft uncontrollable) then the controller can spout off the ILS freq and the pilot can tune it real fast and do a quick and dirty approach.  A total electrical failure is highly unlikely (if my count is correct, and depending on the problem, that would be a 5 or 6 way failure in the CRJ) due to the number of redundancies and backups available.  Loss of thrust rules out any type of instrument approach.  In a dire emergency, I guess ATC might be able to do an improvised ASR approach, but I'm not sure on the legalities of that.  If you have radio communication, then you most likely have a navigation receiver working too.
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joeyb747
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« Reply #21 on: March 03, 2009, 08:27:41 PM »

Great info cesna157. Thanks!

Yea, I didn't think about the comm radio working, and the nav radio not...pretty unlikley! All or none right??

Thanks again!

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bill1229
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« Reply #22 on: March 07, 2009, 05:10:20 PM »

Hey, some questions for any CRJ drivers...

1.  Is this a luggage door or the main cabin door?  Wondering if there's a different alert.

2.  Why didn't he declare an emergency?  I realize it's his option, but with 15 on board, why not? 

3.  Finally, the discussion on the return set up is great... Can or shouldn't the flight computer be set up for an emergency return and also the destination?  Press a button and get that return?  Or can only the final destination be set up? 

Great audio, and he did great flying the plane and not letting it be a distraction.  PIC sounds like it's another day at the office.  Thanks,

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cessna157
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« Reply #23 on: March 07, 2009, 08:01:29 PM »

1.  Is this a luggage door or the main cabin door?  Wondering if there's a different alert.

This is the main passenger door.  The cargo door (and every other door on the airplane) is a plug-type door, and therefore cannot open while the aircraft is in the air.  The passenger door is not a plug, it is just held in place by many pins and cam-locks.  On the CRJ, the passenger door being open generates a red warning message, while every other door generates a yellow caution message.

2.  Why didn't he declare an emergency?  I realize it's his option, but with 15 on board, why not? 
Not sure.  Pilot's discretion.  Although the door indicated open, it obviously wasn't actually open (or else this would be a completely different thread, and the ferry boats would have had another outing).  The crew knew this and just did a standard return to departure airport.  Most mechanical returns are not emergencies.  Many diversions are (since it is something to land right away for, rather than continuing).

3.  Finally, the discussion on the return set up is great... Can or shouldn't the flight computer be set up for an emergency return and also the destination?  Press a button and get that return?  Or can only the final destination be set up? 

The FMS has certain logic to its menu systems.  SIDs for the departure airport, STARs and approaches for the destination.  They certainly could have changed the destination airport in the FMS to KJFK and had the approaches available.  This would require just a couple steps of changing the destination, making KJFK the next waypoint (which would clear the original flight plan route), then selecting the approach the wanted.  But why go through all of that when you can just look out your left window and see the airport 5 miles away.  Automation is made to assist the pilot, but sometimes using less automation is easier.
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joeyb747
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« Reply #24 on: March 07, 2009, 08:09:05 PM »

Cessna157 hits it out of the park again!

I have to say cessna157, you always have the best info! You are an incredible asset to this site. Thanks for sharing your knowledge! Seeing the answer form the pilots view puts a whole new light on the subject every time!

Thanks again!  grin
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