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Author Topic: Asiana 214 Crash at KSFO  (Read 92507 times)
capolydude
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« on: July 06, 2013, 04:02:13 PM »

First 3 minutes KSFO Tower feed from today's crash of Asiana 214.

* AAR214-KSFO-Crash.mp3 (2744.18 KB - downloaded 17434 times.)
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NoMad
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« Reply #1 on: July 06, 2013, 04:50:50 PM »

Impressed there was only one fatality.
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bhartman
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« Reply #2 on: July 06, 2013, 05:17:09 PM »

As always, impressed by the training and professionalism of ATC and pilots.
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marc99
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« Reply #3 on: July 06, 2013, 05:17:28 PM »

Sounded like a stepped on transmission, partially heard "go around" and then a few seconds later "I have trouble".
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 05:21:15 PM by marc99 » Logged
blantonl
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« Reply #4 on: July 06, 2013, 05:38:39 PM »

I wonder if this 777 had Rolls Royce engines?  If so, could this be a repeat of BA-38 at Heathrow?
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marc99
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« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2013, 05:58:43 PM »

Over the last minute of flight:
time                                                                              
02:27PM    37.5988    -122.3270    299°    West    145    167    800    -1,380 Descending    FlightAware
02:27PM    37.6016    -122.3340    297°    West    141    162    600    -1,320 Descending    FlightAware
02:27PM    37.6045    -122.3410    298°    West    134    154    400    -900 Descending    FlightAware
02:27PM    37.6073    -122.3480    297°    West    123    142    300    -840 Descending    FlightAware
02:27PM    37.6103    -122.3550    298°    West    109    125    100    -120 Descending    FlightAware
02:28PM    37.6170    -122.3740    294°    West    85      98      200    120 Climbing    FlightAware

Looks good on speed and descent on approach.
Till till 3500 ft before RWY at 123k
Then at 1000 ft before RWY at 109k - stalling.
Then 85k just before the rocks - climbing, no doubt at full throttle, but not soon enough.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 03:01:13 PM by marc99 » Logged
jackey1975
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« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2013, 06:07:57 PM »

asiana777 have PW ENGINES as far as i know
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kimbolan
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« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2013, 06:51:09 PM »

Asiana 214
Boeing 777-28EER
built: 2006
Pratt & Whitney PW4090
Source: Airport-Data.com
« Last Edit: July 06, 2013, 07:00:37 PM by kimbolan » Logged
chrisatcc
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« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2013, 07:09:07 PM »

great job  capolydude putting this together
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rayc56
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« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2013, 08:14:26 PM »

I'm new to site and find this particular recording fascinating. My question, Is  Asiana 214 on approach and asked for emergency vehicles or has the crash landing just occured and the Asiana pilot is requesting help after the plane has come to a stop?
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blantonl
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« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2013, 08:36:12 PM »

Dave, this audio file has made it out into the wild without permission from you.  Additionally, many of these sources using the audio are not attributing the source.  However, I saw CNN properly attribute the source of the audio, but just wanted to make you aware.
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lfgd521rc
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« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2013, 09:13:54 PM »

I'm new to site and find this particular recording fascinating. My question, Is  Asiana 214 on approach and asked for emergency vehicles or has the crash landing just occured and the Asiana pilot is requesting help after the plane has come to a stop?

I've listened to a long version and a short version of the audio tape. Both indicate the landing was normal, or perceived to be normal. The Tower audio gives a sudden up tempo about 58 seconds into the tape. In the background, one of the other Controllers can be heard saying "Go Around" to another aircraft. The Controller handling Asiana 214 responded to both of the downed aircraft's radio transmissions with "Emergency vehicles are on the way" and "We have everybody on the way" or something similar.

It is my belief that the Tower crew saw the crash. Based on the audio, and the location of the Tower in relation to the approach end of Runway 28 Left.
Their performance after the incident was extraordinary. They immediately moved into "Go Around" Mode.
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b757capt
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« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2013, 09:42:42 PM »

I'm new to site and find this particular recording fascinating. My question, Is  Asiana 214 on approach and asked for emergency vehicles or has the crash landing just occured and the Asiana pilot is requesting help after the plane has come to a stop?

I've listened to a long version and a short version of the audio tape. Both indicate the landing was normal, or perceived to be normal. The Tower audio gives a sudden up tempo about 58 seconds into the tape. In the background, one of the other Controllers can be heard saying "Go Around" to another aircraft. The Controller handling Asiana 214 responded to both of the downed aircraft's radio transmissions with "Emergency vehicles are on the way" and "We have everybody on the way" or something similar.

It is my belief that the Tower crew saw the crash. Based on the audio, and the location of the Tower in relation to the approach end of Runway 28 Left.
Their performance after the incident was extraordinary. They immediately moved into "Go Around" Mode.

So where are the long and short tapes? I only see one in this thread.
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oktalist
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« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2013, 10:06:20 PM »

Longer version is up on Youtube, attributed to LiveATC:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQSSJqLi-kE
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Steelrman
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« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2013, 10:44:50 PM »

There is an Asian voice speaking in the clip but I have no idea what he is saying. Can anyone make it out?
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phil-s
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« Reply #15 on: July 07, 2013, 12:44:42 AM »

Except for maybe "I have a problem" and when he gives his call sign, utterly unintelligible to my ear. Seemed like tower couldn't salvage anything useful out of the coms either and just kept responding "emergency vehicles are on the way".  What a mess.
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ryannayr140
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« Reply #16 on: July 07, 2013, 12:52:17 AM »

Doing my best to change all voice to text.  Notice that most of the pilots are professional and read everything very fast except for the important parts.  I'm not from the area so forgive me for botching the names of locations on non relevant traffic.  

0:00 Asiana 214 heavy San Francisco tower, runway 28L (you are) cleared to land.  
0:03 Alright cleared to land 28L Asiana 214.  (Inaudible)  

0:05 Skywest 5427, fly runway heading, and contact norcal departures.  
0:09 Fly runway heading go over to departures Skywest 5427, good day.  

0:12 Tower, United 85?.  
0:15 United 85 go ahead.  
0:17 United 85 at the end (of the taxiway) we might need a few more minutes, just a heads up.  
0:22 United 85, Rodger, hold short of runway 28 left let me know when you're ready.  
0:26 Hold short of 28 left united 85.  

0:28 San Fransisco tower, Skywest 5452, quiet bridge visual 28 Right.  
0:32 5452 San Fransisco tower, runway 28 right cleared to land.  
0:37 Cleared to land 28 right, Skywest 5452.  

0:39 (N7)30F...600
0:40 (Cut off by inaudable man yelling in background)
0:41 (Silence)
0:43 San Fransisco tower, Skyhawk 737 (non important transmition said slowly by foreign pilot)
0:46 Go around (tower steps on pilot)
0:48 ...500 feet over San Carlos.  

He was slow, and should have asked for permission to talk on a busy frequency like United 85 did at 0:12. Let me be clear, this pilot, nor a lack of communication were the cause of this accident.

0:50 Skywest 6389 maintain 3000!
0:53 280 3000 Skywest 6389. (said very quickly)

0:55 Hello? Asiana 214 (Inaudible)
0:57 (step on tone)
0:58 (Asiana 214) heavy, emergency vehicles are responding.  
1:01 Asiana 214!
1:03 Emergency (vehicles repond)ing.  
1:04 Okay tower, uh... uh... (very inaudible).  

1:11 Cesna 737ZD, San Francisco tower remain clear of the San Fransisco class bravo airspace, contact San Carlos tower.  
1:17 7ZD contacting San Carlos tower, and remain clear (of class bravo airspace).  

1:22 Helicopter 3SF leaving the bravo airspace in 2 miles, radar services terminated, squawk (and) maintain VFR, frequency change approved.  (not read back)

1:28 (inaudable) San Fransisco tower?

1:31 Horizon 6... (beep)

1:35 Asiana 214 heavy, San Fransisco tower.  

1:37 (Inaudible Korean with uhs)

1:42 (Horizon)635 is going around.  
1:43 Horizon 635, fly heading 265, maintain 3100.  
1:47 265 3100 Horizon 635.  
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 01:15:10 AM by ryannayr140 » Logged
Gawtti
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« Reply #17 on: July 07, 2013, 02:14:23 AM »

This clip went Worldwide ... Amazing, good job!
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AntiguaJim
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« Reply #18 on: July 07, 2013, 02:29:18 AM »

As we now know, the ILS and "Poppy lights" were out of service for 28L for some time before this incident.
Maybe the pilots were not aware of this. When they became aware of the problem it was too late to achieve a safe glide slope and landing. They should have initiated a go around much sooner.
One would think the pilots of the Friday flight, who made a successful landing would have notified the Asiana company of the ILS problem.  
I have experienced ILS problems when the course part was working. but the glide slope was not.
Or, was this a poorly trained pilot, which Asiana has been criticised for in the past, who was attempting a visual approach?
It will be interesting to see the final report.
Thankfully the loss of life was minimal. Prayers to their families and those injured.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 03:03:15 AM by AntiguaJim » Logged
phil-s
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« Reply #19 on: July 07, 2013, 02:40:12 AM »

That might make more sense to many written PAPI lights. 
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AntiguaJim
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« Reply #20 on: July 07, 2013, 03:07:50 AM »

My reference to the "Poppy Lights" is from my flight instructor many years ago. She said if I saw 4 "red poppy flowers" on final I would be pushing up poppies from my grave. I never have forgotten that, and never will.
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tyketto
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« Reply #21 on: July 07, 2013, 03:19:16 AM »

As we now know, the ILS and "Poppy lights" were out of service for 28L for some time before this incident.
Maybe the pilots were not aware of this. When they became aware of the problem it was too late to achieve a safe glide slope and landing. They should have initiated a go around much sooner.
One would think the pilots of the Friday flight, who made a successful landing would have notified the Asiana company of the ILS problem.

Any notice of the ILS being out of service for either runway would have been added to the list of NOTAMs and broadcast over the ATIS. This means that ALL pilots would have been aware of the problem well before reaching the TRACON area. Saying that this is a company problem really has nothing to do with it.

Quote
I have experienced ILS problems when the course part was working. but the glide slope was not.
Or, was this a poorly trained pilot, which Asiana has been criticised for in the past, who was attempting a visual approach?
It will be interesting to see the final report.
Thankfully the loss of life was minimal. Prayers to their families and those injured.

this is assuming that they were on the ILS. According to the METAR, the field was VMC, so they could have been on either the Quiet Bridge or Tip Toe visual to 28L or 28R, or just the straight visual approach. My guess was the Quiet Bridge Visual, all of which would have been given clearance to by NCT.

In fact, they couldn't be on the ILS, because according to the NOTAMs, the glide paths for both 28R an 28L were unusable until mid-August, and both Cat II and Cat III ILS were not available at all until mid August, and those NOTAMs went into effect last week. So the only ILS approach available would have been to 19L, which normally would be used with East Ops.

So it was a visual approach, a CVFP, or nothing at all. BTW. Check https://www.notams.faa.gov for the NOTAMs in question. Either way, I don't think this is a 'not knowing the procedure' issue.

BL.
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AntiguaJim
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« Reply #22 on: July 07, 2013, 03:41:54 AM »

I agree that is was an intentional visual approach.
 So now the question is why did the pilot in command misjudge his final approach so badly? According to "FlightAware" his descent was radically different than normal. Maybe his Barometric Pressure was not set correctly? It would be good to hear his landing approval from the tower and his read back.
I suppose my main question is why, upon realizing he was far above the normal glide scope, the pilot didn't declare a missed approach.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 03:52:46 AM by AntiguaJim » Logged
LIIT
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« Reply #23 on: July 07, 2013, 05:12:28 AM »

Over the last minute of flight:
time                                                                                  k      mph AGL  
02:27PM    37.5988    -122.3270    299°    West    145    167    800    -1,380 Descending    FlightAware
02:27PM    37.6016    -122.3340    297°    West    141    162    600    -1,320 Descending    FlightAware
02:27PM    37.6045    -122.3410    298°    West    134    154    400    -900 Descending    FlightAware
02:27PM    37.6073    -122.3480    297°    West    123    142    300    -840 Descending    FlightAware
02:27PM    37.6103    -122.3550    298°    West    109    125    100    -120 Descending    FlightAware
02:28PM    37.6170    -122.3740    294°    West    85      98      200    120 Climbing    FlightAware

Looks good on speed and descent on approach.
Till till 3500 ft before at 123k
Then at 1000 ft at 109k - stalling.
Then 85k just before the rocks - climbing, no doubt at full throttle, but not soon enough.

It appears from those numbers, that the plane succeeded in climbing, but still hit the ground. Could this be because of an incorrect pressure setting?
« Last Edit: July 07, 2013, 05:15:15 AM by LIIT » Logged
oktalist
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« Reply #24 on: July 07, 2013, 09:36:41 AM »

He was slow, and should have asked for permission to talk on a busy frequency like United 85 did at 0:12. Let me be clear, this pilot, nor a lack of communication were the cause of this accident.
"Let me be clear" should usually be followed by something that is clear. huh
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