British Airways "Speedbird 287 Heavy" Second Go-Around for the evening.

[doriangray001]

the controller should always make sure his instructions are read back

[aviator_06]

I'd be ticked.

[oneup1982]

Seems to me if the instructions weren't read back he shoulda been spun.

[theginge]

Think European heavy operators into the USA frequently have problems with the tight vectoring and speed controls at some airports.

Always hearing of problems into SFO as they try to get 747-400's to slow down unrealistically. Can't quite tell if that was a problem in this instance.  Also hear that MIA is a problem as well as US operators don't operate the 744 in there so again European operators sometimes have problems with the vectoring and speed control.

Seems like the pilots weren't too happy with the controller here.

[BK88]

Not required, and would take too much time holding every pilot's hand, especially during a busy time.  If the transmission is blocked, then it is the pilot's responsibility to request a repeat of the instruction.

the controller should always make sure his instructions are read back

[mk882004]

This is true Pilots do not have to ready back any instructions EXCEPT hold short instructions. a ROGER will always be enough for a pilot to say, HOWEVER if a pilot reads back an instruction now it is a controllers responsibility to ensure the readback was correct, if no read back is recieve the controller has no obligation

[Domobaby]

After 7:12m they get given speed 150knots anyway it doesnt matter and then slowest practical speed! They are just getting them too tight idiots.

[keith]

I realize this is an old thread, but it made for fascinating listening.

Think European heavy operators into the USA frequently have problems with the tight vectoring and speed controls at some airports.

The pilot flew the headings and the assigned speeds, unless I'm missing something.  The problem, I'm guessing is that the controllers were running planes with dissimilar final approach speeds a little too close on the localizer. Giving them 150, 160, or 180kts to a certain point is fine, but once the speed restriction is toast and the plane ahead (such as the A320 on the first go around) slows to 130, it can be a problem if the #2 guy is faster.

The solution is to run with more spacing on the localizer to begin with when you have a #1 plane with a final approach speed slower than the #2 guy. It's easy to say that now, of course, but it sure didn't sound like it was an issue with the pilot not being used to 'tight' vectoring or speed controls.

[hapysed]

I've always admired the professionalism of BAW pilots.  This is yet another example.  Calm, measured, and keeping a lid on some very justifable frustration. 

[coz]

The pilot flew the headings and the assigned speeds, unless I'm missing something. 

True for the first approach.

The second time, he was assigned a speed which he did not read back.

The pilot should have gotten the assignment, and the controller should have made sure the pilot got the speed change.

[Casper87]

Think European heavy operators into the USA frequently have problems with the tight vectoring and speed controls at some airports.

Not Speedbird 747s though. Most of them would be out of Heathrow. And Heathrow involves some serious vectoring when its busy...2.5nm spacing which requires strict speed control. I cant comment on other European airlines but i dont think a BA aircraft would have any issues with tight vectoring.

[Casper87]

quote: "Not required, and would take too much time holding every pilot's hand, especially during a busy time.  If the transmission is blocked, then it is the pilot's responsibility to request a repeat of the instruction."

mmm....If the controllers gives an instruction and its not read-back then how does the ATCO know the pilots heard it? The pilots are busy with alot of other stuff...Aviate Navigate Communicate.  It is the controllers responsiblilty to ensure that his/her instructions are complied with.

If the transmission was blocked how is it the pilots responsibility to get a repeat?? If the transmission was blocked then the pilots wouldnt have heard it...so how can they ask for a repeat of something they didnt even know was transmitted? Pilots aint psychic

  C

[philip]

Wow! after a 13 hours flight he sure is polite...

[philip]

Also...He said he had the controller give him a missed approach before because of the speeds but it wasnt it was because of the wind...am i missing something?

[nrathburn]

Great find! I'll actually be on that flight in April...hope that doesn't happen!!!