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Author Topic: Cancelled take off Clearance - JFK  (Read 41006 times)
derekjackson
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« Reply #30 on: June 22, 2011, 05:51:34 PM »

Here's one more clip concerning the incident in question: edited clip consisting of both flights getting underway afterwards and you can easily see the contrast with Egyptair being given the dreaded number to call and Lufthansa being given the #1 position along with a message of having done a great job!
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joeyb747
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Nothing Like A 747!


« Reply #31 on: June 22, 2011, 06:30:39 PM »

http://xfinity.comcast.net/video/collision-averted-at-jfk-airport/2019593908/Comcast/2019334963/
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anand
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« Reply #32 on: June 22, 2011, 07:41:59 PM »

"Cancel take off! Cancel take off plans!" yelled a frightened air controller who saw that the Munich-bound Lufthansa....."

talk about media knowing nothing about what they are talking. First of all, controller didn't seem frightened (one of the coolest guy to hear) and somebody heard it as "cancel take off plans" and so that is what every single outlet is reporting. Do these guys, even make an attempt to write their own stuff anymore.. you can clearly hear him say, cancel take off clearance. Maybe I understood him, because I hear him often.. maybe.

sorry folks, just venting about the media and its mediocre efforts. Didn't mean to hijack this thread.
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moakley
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« Reply #33 on: June 22, 2011, 08:06:23 PM »

A jet carrying 286 passengers slammed on its brakes and aborted a take-off this week at Kennedy Airport after another plane began taxiing towards the runway it was using, the Federal Aviation Administration said on Wednesday.

Lufthansa Flight 411 was cleared for take-off and EgyptAir Flight 986 was instructed to stay behind a "hold line", 250 feet behind the runway, at 6.50pm on Monday, said FAA spokeswoman Kathleen Bergen. The EgyptAir crossed the line but did not enter the runway, she said.

"When air traffic control saw that, it cancelled the take-off for Lufthansa," Bergen said, adding that the Lufthansa plane stopped "a considerable distance" from the EgyptAir jet.
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In radio recordings posted on the website LiveATC.net, a controller in the JFK tower is heard giving take-off clearance to the Lufthansa flight while another controller directs the EgyptAir plane.

"No! Whoa-whoa-whoa-whoa!" shouts someone in the tower as the EgyptAir plane crosses the hold-short line.

"Cancel take-off! Cancel take-off plans!" a controller shouts to the Lufthansa jet.

The Lufthansa plane, an Airbus A340, slammed on its brakes and came to a stop. Then it taxied off the runway. The pilot told controllers he was worried his brakes may have overheated, so controllers sent a Port Authority crew to help check the plane's landing gear.

"That was quite a show. Thought it was going to be a short career," a pilot who witnessed the aborted takeoff remarked on the radio.

The FAA was looking at "pilot deviation" because the EgyptAir plane, a Boeing 777, didn't follow air traffic instructions.

"The pilot was instructed to turn onto another taxiway but did not," Bergen said.

She said the FAA is investigating and will determine how close the two planes came.

EgyptAir officials said they had no knowledge of the close call.

The Lufthansa flight was heading to Munich, airline spokesman Martin Riecken said. After the takeoff was halted, the captain returned to the gate for a maintenance check while the passengers remained on the plane. The fight departed about two hours later, Riecken said.

There were no reports of injuries.

The New York Post reported that the EgyptAir flight was bound for Cairo. It was not immediately known how many people it was carrying. It departed about 90 minutes afterwards.

Bergen said investigators will listen to air traffic communications and look at radar replay.

Aviation authorities are increasingly worried about the danger of runway collisions as planes get bigger and airports more congested. In December a JetBlue plane took a wrong turn at Boston's Logan Airport and nearly taxied onto a runway where another plane was taking off.

The deadliest crash in aviation history was a runway collision. In 1977 a KLM Boeing 747 crashed into a Pan Am 747 on the same runway in Tenerife, in the Canary Islands, killing 583 people.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/travel/travel-incidents/jet-halts-takeoff-in-close-call-at-kennedy-airport-20110623-1gg1d.html#ixzz1Q3LaVP4F
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athaker
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« Reply #34 on: June 22, 2011, 11:51:22 PM »

"Cancel take off! Cancel take off plans!" yelled a frightened air controller who saw that the Munich-bound Lufthansa....."

talk about media knowing nothing about what they are talking. First of all, controller didn't seem frightened (one of the coolest guy to hear) and somebody heard it as "cancel take off plans" and so that is what every single outlet is reporting. Do these guys, even make an attempt to write their own stuff anymore.. you can clearly hear him say, cancel take off clearance. Maybe I understood him, because I hear him often.. maybe.

sorry folks, just venting about the media and its mediocre efforts. Didn't mean to hijack this thread.


I tend to agree with you, Anand.  There are certainly reporters browsing (lurking) these forums, and in some articles I've seen our speculative discussions (sometimes with typos included!) being reported as facts.  Gotta be watchful about the sources that are cited.

Anyway, as usual these KJFK controllers are all stars, and the real story should be "Controllers averted disaster at JFK"

These two videos came to mind, for those who want visuals:


(Go forward to 1:20 for the action)
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sacex250
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« Reply #35 on: June 23, 2011, 03:05:26 AM »


Anyway, as usual these KJFK controllers are all stars, and the real story should be "Controllers averted disaster at JFK"


I get the impression that the Lufthansa had already initiated the RTO before the controller cancelled the clearance.

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« Last Edit: June 23, 2011, 03:07:27 AM by sacex250 » Logged
flyflyfly
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« Reply #36 on: June 23, 2011, 07:17:54 AM »

Egyptair being given the dreaded number to call

LiveATC nightmare: imagine sitting in that taxiing aircraft and hearing your pilot being given "the number". Can I leave the plane please? Get a refund? wink

But it seems most of FAA's actions would only work with FAA licenses (http://www.martindale.com/aviation-aerospace-law/article_Curry-Pearson-Wooten-PLC_1251118.htm).
What are their options with foreign pilots - do they also keep records on them? Could they ban individual pilots from flying into the US? Or can they just speak to them and maybe "even" send them a letter?
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VGS513
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« Reply #37 on: June 23, 2011, 11:58:58 AM »

I'm new.....how do you listen to an audio clip?
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derekjackson
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« Reply #38 on: June 23, 2011, 12:03:13 PM »

I'm new.....how do you listen to an audio clip?

Make sure you're logged in, then click on the mp3 links that are below some of our posts.
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contrails
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« Reply #39 on: June 23, 2011, 12:24:40 PM »

Just curious, to those familiar with JFK. I am looking at the airport diagram from FlightAware, EgyptAir is located at terminal 4, right?... looking at the diagram I assume the EgyptAIr was at -H- just short of -A-(where he must have went too far forward...then thought 22R was -B- ... or went beyond -B- and was trying to turn around....but got too close to 22R).

Where I'm confused is that he is initially given clearance to 22R for takeoff, via left on -B-(from -H-), but why was he told to hold short at "-D-" ....Huh? with -ZA- being the shortest path to 22R from -B-? Was -ZA- (or even -E-) closed requiring him to go around the bend like that...or perhaps was it for sequencing/other traffic reasons?
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eastern tristar
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« Reply #40 on: June 23, 2011, 01:21:48 PM »

I think the line of planes waiting to take off that night were lined up on Charlie (parallel to 31R), so Egypt Air probably was heading toward the end of that line and at some point would have made a right off Bravo, crossed 31R maybe at Delta or further down, and then a right on Charlie to get in line for departure.

I haven't heard the tower controller or the ground controller on since this happened. What happens to them in a situation like this?
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klkm
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« Reply #41 on: June 23, 2011, 04:25:02 PM »



I haven't heard the tower controller or the ground controller on since this happened. What happens to them in a situation like this?

With any close call obviously an investigation is opened, tapes pulled etc.  In this case it was pretty obvious that pilot error was the cause and they would be commended for their quick reaction in stopping the takeoff.  They get the option of up to 45 days off for the traumatic experience of nearly seeing two planes crash.  It is paid time off, but if you take that option you do need to go see a psychologist and then you need their permission prior to being able to return to work.  Typically that means 2 meetings with them and they say when you feel up to it you can go back. 
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qsecofr
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« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2011, 10:16:59 PM »

Here's one more clip concerning the incident in question: edited clip consisting of both flights getting underway afterwards and you can easily see the contrast with Egyptair being given the dreaded number to call and Lufthansa being given the #1 position along with a message of having done a great job!

Not to detract from the incident, but there is a funny exchange on this clip between Ground and Mesaba 2407 about the 1:50 about a missing laptop.
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derekjackson
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« Reply #43 on: June 24, 2011, 10:46:56 PM »

Here's one more clip concerning the incident in question: edited clip consisting of both flights getting underway afterwards and you can easily see the contrast with Egyptair being given the dreaded number to call and Lufthansa being given the #1 position along with a message of having done a great job!

Not to detract from the incident, but there is a funny exchange on this clip between Ground and Mesaba 2407 about the 1:50 about a missing laptop.

And that's why I deliberately left it in grin
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cageordie
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« Reply #44 on: June 25, 2011, 11:49:16 PM »

Surely the appropriate links for an A340 rejected take off would be of the A340 rejected take off tests?



or a Lufthansa A380 RTO

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