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Author Topic: Cancelled take off Clearance - JFK  (Read 56975 times)
Delta741
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« Reply #50 on: June 28, 2011, 06:46:57 AM »

Here's one more clip concerning the incident in question: edited clip consisting of both flights getting underway afterwards and you can easily see the contrast with Egyptair being given the dreaded number to call and Lufthansa being given the #1 position along with a message of having done a great job!

Not to detract from the incident, but there is a funny exchange on this clip between Ground and Mesaba 2407 about the 1:50 about a missing laptop.

And that's why I deliberately left it in grin
Haha, I liked that too, kinda lightened up the mood a bit!  grin
« Last Edit: June 28, 2011, 06:58:32 AM by Delta741 » Logged
stingray0
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« Reply #51 on: June 28, 2011, 06:59:52 PM »

I'm a native English speaker (American) who is good with accents, and I can't understand half of what that female ground controller says.  She's talking much too fast and cutting off words.  I understood the pilots just fine, and ditto on the male ground controller.  That woman needs some training or something.
I'm wondering... Though I am not a native speeker of English, I do not have any difficulties understanding her. But maybe I just got used to the voices at Kennedy due to frequent listening? On the downside, I cannot identify accents.
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athaker
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« Reply #52 on: June 30, 2011, 04:00:04 AM »

Surely the appropriate links for an A340 rejected take off would be of the A340 rejected take off tests?

Thank you. You're absolutely right, my mistake.  I confused the Egyptair and Lufthansa...DLH doesn't even fly 777s come to think of it.  Subconscious slip of Boeing bias?  tongue
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mymuss
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« Reply #53 on: July 10, 2011, 09:05:07 PM »

I'm a native English speaker (American) who is good with accents, and I can't understand half of what that female ground controller says.  She's talking much too fast and cutting off words.  I understood the pilots just fine, and ditto on the male ground controller.  That woman needs some training or something.

I'm not a native English speaker and I understand every single word she says (although I logged hundreds of hours flown in U.S. airspace). I also understand 100% of what DLH pilots are saying. But with Egyptian pilots I don't think I'd understand anything other than readbacks.
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cptbrw
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« Reply #54 on: January 04, 2012, 04:41:15 PM »

Found this today on the Flightaware Morning Newsletter:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2081720/EgyptAir-flight-just-37-feet-JFKs-worst-runway-disaster.html
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joeyb747
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« Reply #55 on: January 04, 2012, 07:48:40 PM »

Lufthansa A340 and Egyptair 777:

http://xfinity.comcast.net/video/airliners-nearly-collide-during-takeoff-at-jfk-airport/2183518830/Comcast/2183455808/

The news reporter mentions the Tenerife Disaster...for those who may not be aware of that one, watch the Youtube video below...this was almost worse...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=c03Q_gTctSE
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 07:54:27 PM by joeyb747 » Logged

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sacex250
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« Reply #56 on: January 04, 2012, 09:22:51 PM »

Lufthansa A340 and Egyptair 777:

http://xfinity.comcast.net/video/airliners-nearly-collide-during-takeoff-at-jfk-airport/2183518830/Comcast/2183455808/

The news reporter mentions the Tenerife Disaster...for those who may not be aware of that one, watch the Youtube video below...this was almost worse...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=c03Q_gTctSE

As was misstated in the article, the Tenerife disaster was not the result of a plane pulling onto a runway in front of another airplane; it was the result of an airplane taking off without a clearance while another airplane was on the runway in foggy conditions.

This incident never came close to being as bad as the Tenerife crash because the Lufthansa crew could see the EgyptAir plane and they aborted their takeoff early enough to stop.
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joeyb747
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« Reply #57 on: January 04, 2012, 09:43:35 PM »

Lufthansa A340 and Egyptair 777:

http://xfinity.comcast.net/video/airliners-nearly-collide-during-takeoff-at-jfk-airport/2183518830/Comcast/2183455808/

The news reporter mentions the Tenerife Disaster...for those who may not be aware of that one, watch the Youtube video below...this was almost worse...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=c03Q_gTctSE

As was misstated in the article, the Tenerife disaster was not the result of a plane pulling onto a runway in front of another airplane; it was the result of an airplane taking off without a clearance while another airplane was on the runway in foggy conditions.

This incident never came close to being as bad as the Tenerife crash because the Lufthansa crew could see the EgyptAir plane and they aborted their takeoff early enough to stop.

Key word: ALMOST.

In terms of potential life loss, this COULD have been worse.  I am well aware of the Tenerife Disaster, and how it played out. 
« Last Edit: January 04, 2012, 09:46:05 PM by joeyb747 » Logged

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NoMad
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« Reply #58 on: January 04, 2012, 10:13:58 PM »

How shocking.  The news media blowing it out of proportion and exaggerating it to make a story out of something that isn't a story.
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flyflyfly
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« Reply #59 on: January 05, 2012, 04:21:58 PM »

This incident never came close to being as bad as the Tenerife crash because the Lufthansa crew could see the EgyptAir plane and they aborted their takeoff early enough to stop.

I think they slammed the brakes when told to cancel by the controller, not because they saw Egypt Air on the runway. The latter may well have been too late. So, it's probably the controller to be credited first - and the fact that he could see the conflict (window or ground radar). Of course, Lufthansa's response was also good either way.
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sacex250
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« Reply #60 on: January 05, 2012, 05:37:21 PM »

This incident never came close to being as bad as the Tenerife crash because the Lufthansa crew could see the EgyptAir plane and they aborted their takeoff early enough to stop.

I think they slammed the brakes when told to cancel by the controller, not because they saw Egypt Air on the runway. The latter may well have been too late. So, it's probably the controller to be credited first - and the fact that he could see the conflict (window or ground radar). Of course, Lufthansa's response was also good either way.
When listening to the audio, the first officer immediately replies to the tower that they're rejecting the takeoff.  He wouldn't have done that if they weren't already slowing down.  Plus, the Lufthansa had the best view of what was happening, if the tower could see that EgyptAir had missed the turn then the Lufthansa pilots could certainly see a 777 heading onto the runway in front of them.  
« Last Edit: January 05, 2012, 05:51:33 PM by sacex250 » Logged
tszarek
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« Reply #61 on: January 07, 2012, 04:04:55 AM »

How shocking.  The news media blowing it out of proportion and exaggerating it to make a story out of something that isn't a story.

The NY Post has a better article that at least clarifies that the EgyptAir was 37 feet from the runway, but the closest the planes got was 1500 feet.

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/queens/feet_from_disaster_at_jfk_e4aV6YHOoPU1UQEHnzAHPP

While it might be out of proportion, this is still very much a story that the public should be aware of, if for no other reason than to keep pressure on regulator agencies to make sure it doesn't happen again.
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NoMad
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« Reply #62 on: January 08, 2012, 06:51:10 PM »

I agree it is a serious incident.  It's the reporting that was ridiculous.  This was never even close to being a collision but the reports on TV screaming about how this was a near death incident.
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Robert Larson
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« Reply #63 on: January 10, 2012, 06:59:16 PM »

I noticed that while the article describes the Lufthansa as an A340 they have a picture of an A380 there. More sensational that way I suppose.
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KRDU & KTTA http://d.liveatc.net/krdu2.m3u
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