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| | |-+  Colgan 3268 - May 12, 2009 - KEWR-KBUF - Lost Wheel on Landing - Dash 8-400
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Author Topic: Colgan 3268 - May 12, 2009 - KEWR-KBUF - Lost Wheel on Landing - Dash 8-400  (Read 41884 times)
kea001
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« on: May 13, 2009, 11:10:31 AM »

A Colgan Air de Havilland Dash 8-400, registration N187WQ performing flight 9L-3268 from Newark,NJ to Buffalo,NY (USA), had landed on Buffalo's runway 23 and was taxiing to the ramp via taxiway Alpha, when the tower queried the crew, whether they had lost a tyre. After an affirmative reply from the crew emergency services inspected the taxiway and decided to also have a look onto the runway, then reported that fluid, possibly from hydraulics, was on the runway and a whole wheel had been located with debris around the intersections of runway 23, runway 32 and taxiway Alpha. Both runways were closed, runway 32 reopened about 10 minutes later.

Aviation Herald:
http://avherald.com/h?article=4198ce09&opt=1

KBUF - May 12, 2009 - 2200Z-2230Z
« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 11:13:05 AM by kea001 » Logged
atcman23
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« Reply #1 on: May 13, 2009, 07:25:01 PM »

Someone forget a lugnut or two??  tongue  That's interesting as to how they would lose a tire.  I mean, they have a hard enough time replacing them and they wait until there is no tread left to replace them anyway!  KBUF has really been in the news this year.
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Mark Spencer
kea001
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« Reply #2 on: May 13, 2009, 08:38:01 PM »





From: WGRZ Buffalo
http://www.wgrz.com/news/local/story.aspx?storyid=66765&provider=gnews
« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 09:02:28 PM by kea001 » Logged
joeyb747
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« Reply #3 on: May 13, 2009, 09:40:46 PM »

It may just be the angle its at, and also the graininess of the photo(I am assuming this is a screen capture form a video), but it looks like the end of the axle is broken!

Here are a couple pics of complete Q400 main gear:

http://cdn-www.airliners.net/aviation-photos/photos/9/5/0/1415059.jpg

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/167/410801693_682969df18.jpg?v=0

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_OKdf8I_bxhI/SJVyxGbv1BI/AAAAAAAACZE/uIsRTfozZt0/s320/dash8%2Bwheel.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2174/2484230469_ab013993b1.jpg?v=0

And here is a crude drawing of the main landing gear...appropriately, missing a tire!  wink I am not failure with the Q400 gear, but I think the tire is held on the axle shaft with a large castle nut, witch is covered by a dust cap that snaps in place. Bearings are in between the halves, and slide over the axel. It would appear that the axle broke, allowing the tire to come off. The bolts around the rim you can see in the pics hold the two halves of the rim together. Most aircraft don't have "lugnuts" per say... wink

http://blog.flightstory.net/wp-content/uploads/sas_aal_investigation.gif

« Last Edit: May 13, 2009, 09:51:33 PM by joeyb747 » Logged

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mhawke
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« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2009, 10:25:09 PM »

From looking at the picture, it would almost appear that the outer bearings seized.  That overheats and the axle, causing it to snap off.  It also leads to blueing of the metal (although hard to see for sure in the picture, it looks like the axle has signs of heat damage to it).

Same thing will happen in your car if you don't repack the bearings on occasion.


Looks like some more bad press and investigations for Colgan air may be coming.....
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flygirltammy
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« Reply #5 on: May 14, 2009, 09:08:33 PM »

Video:
http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2009/05/14/9460296.html
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kea001
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« Reply #6 on: May 14, 2009, 10:02:21 PM »


Oh my freaking dog!

QUOTE: The passenger who shot the video, who didn’t want to be identified, said he “felt something was going to happen.” He and other passengers said they saw flames shooting from a right tire assembly when the plane took off just after 5 p.m.

“Quite a few passengers saw the flames on takeoff,” the passenger said. “The inside wheel on the right side literally sheered off on landing.”

My question is - Did any of these passengers bother to notify the cabin crew about what they saw on departure?

Unfortunately, I won't be able to find the time to go through the ATC archive of the departure to answer my question. Not for a week anyway. I suspect there won't be much there. 
« Last Edit: May 14, 2009, 10:11:16 PM by kea001 » Logged
joeyb747
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« Reply #7 on: May 14, 2009, 10:04:08 PM »

From looking at the picture, it would almost appear that the outer bearings seized.  That overheats and the axle, causing it to snap off.  It also leads to blueing of the metal (although hard to see for sure in the picture, it looks like the axle has signs of heat damage to it).

Same thing will happen in your car if you don't repack the bearings on occasion.


Looks like some more bad press and investigations for Colgan air may be coming.....

I concur 100%. It was just hard to see the end of the axle from the pic, but that's what it looks like to me...
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joeyb747
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Nothing Like A 747!


« Reply #8 on: May 14, 2009, 10:15:50 PM »


Oh my freaking dog!

QUOTE: The passenger who shot the video, who didn’t want to be identified, said he “felt something was going to happen.” He and other passengers said they saw flames shooting from a right tire assembly when the plane took off just after 5 p.m.

“Quite a few passengers saw the flames on takeoff,” the passenger said. “The inside wheel on the right side literally sheered off on landing.”

My question is - Did anyone bother to notify the cabin crew about what they saw on departure?

Probably not!  shocked Does anyone recall Aloha 243? The B737-200 that lost its roof after departing Hilo(PHTO)? Several passengers noticed cracks around the entry door while boarding in Hilo(PHTO) for the flight to Honolulu(PHNL), but didn't say a word to any member of the crew.

Here is the ATC tape from Maui(PHOG) if interested:

http://www.planecrashinfo.com/MP3s/rcvralo243.mp3

And the transcript:

http://www.planecrashinfo.com/cvr880428.htm

Off the subject a bit, but one worth revisiting!  grin
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flygirltammy
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« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2009, 11:56:02 PM »

Procedural question here; even if the pilots knew about it, is the only thing that could have been done was coming in as slow as possible? which would then being risking a stall? I know that if it was a known nose gear problem I could just hold it off as long as possible, but what do in this particular scenario?
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fholbert
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« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2009, 01:33:32 AM »

My guess, the wheel wasn't loose, it was too tight.
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Frank Holbert
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atcman23
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« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2009, 07:19:57 AM »

Another Q400 incident this year.  It's only a matter of time before this makes the national news!
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Mark Spencer
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« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2009, 04:51:05 PM »

Procedural question here; even if the pilots knew about it, is the only thing that could have been done was coming in as slow as possible? which would then being risking a stall? I know that if it was a known nose gear problem I could just hold it off as long as possible, but what do in this particular scenario?

Basically, nothing different would be done.  Just make a normal, albeit as smoothe as you can, landing.  Obviously an emergency would have been declared and CFR on scene for the landing.
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CRJ7/CRJ9 F/O, Travel Agent
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« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2009, 12:23:34 AM »

Procedural question here; even if the pilots knew about it, is the only thing that could have been done was coming in as slow as possible? which would then being risking a stall? I know that if it was a known nose gear problem I could just hold it off as long as possible, but what do in this particular scenario?

Eject and let the passengers fend for them self.


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Frank Holbert
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« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2009, 10:46:06 AM »

Interestingly, I had just gone back to listen to the Colgan 3407 ATC clip after reading the cockpit transcript, and the company dash-8 that went for the approach right after 3407 was 3268.  Not really relevant, but amusing.  I remember 3268 raised some eyebrows then for its very quick decision to land, despite being the first non-jet (and same aircraft type) to shoot the approach some 10-15 minutes after 3407.  In hindsight, there was no reason to wait, but on an icy night in the same aircraft, holding briefly to verify approach settings might have been a little less risky (note, they weren't picking up any more ice below 3500).
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