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Author Topic: Continental (Colgan)-3407 -8 Crash in Buffalo  (Read 141627 times)
thejackal37
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« Reply #165 on: February 16, 2009, 04:20:01 AM »

First and foremost my thoughts and prayers are with all the families that lost a loved one in this tragedy. I knew one of the passengers in general terms (our daughters played soccer against each other) and I cannot imagine what these families are going through. That being said, why is everyone (the news media in particular) in such a hurry to blame the pilots. I know absolutely zero about flying, but the NTSB reports seem to blame the weather.  The media is hammering on the pilots lack of hours (3300 and 2500 seem like alot of hours to me) qas well as their "failure to react" to the pending stall. 900 feet of of the ground doesn't seem like alot of room to correct a problem. Like I said, I'm not a piloting expert, I guess I just want people to remember that the pilots have families that are suffering too. Let's not blame anyone until the evidence proves that to be vtrue...there will be plenty of time to pile on then....just a thought.
P.S. thanks for the great site.
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #166 on: February 16, 2009, 07:55:00 AM »

1. Localizer
2. Altimeter

A localizer is a radio signal that originates just off the approach end of the runway and is transmitted directly out from the airport in the opposite direction as the runway centerline heading.  This allows aircraft, who tune this radio signal into their navigation radios, to align with the runway and remain on the exact lateral course needed to fly directly to it.  Normally a localizer is good for navigating to the runway from about 20 nautical miles out from the runway.  Inside the cockpit, instruments tell the pilot how close the aircraft is to this localizer centerline.  By keeping this needle centered, the pilot is able to keep the aircraft perfectly aligned with the runway during the approach to land phase.

A localizer is often coupled (but not always) with a glideslope signal, also projected in the same direction as the localizer.  A glideslope is also a radio signal and provides the descent path to the runway.  Again, by keeping these needles centered, the aircraft remains on the correct descent path needed to touch down at the correct point of the runway.  

Aircraft measure altitude (how high they are) using an altimeter, which is another instrument inside the cockpit.  An altimeter determines height above mean sea level based on the fact that air pressure decreases at (more or less) a standard rate as altitude increases.  Thus, an altimeter detects changes in air pressure as changes in altitude   As long as the altimeter has the current barometric pressure dialed into it (something that pilots have to often), the changes in altitude that it displays are for all intents accurate changes.

Since having all aircraft at the same reference point is essential to keeping them separated and away from obstructions, ATC often provides the barometric pressure in their communications.  Instead of using the term, barometric pressure, they instead preface barometric pressure as "altimeter," for example "United 456, altimeter three-zero point one-two."    The pilot will then dial in 30.12 (the barometric pressure) into the aircraft's altimeter and from that point this aircraft is now referencing the same altitude changes as other aircraft inside that controller's sector.
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
michaelcrook
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« Reply #167 on: February 16, 2009, 09:27:14 AM »

I just wanted to share my blog, and coverage of this story:

http://www.michael-crook.com/flight_3407/

Although some have called it harsh, I prefer to look at all angles.

I am glad you had tape rolling on Buffalo when this happened.  Although I get the frustration of some pilots that don't want the tape to be released, it's important to know what happened.
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Biff
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« Reply #168 on: February 16, 2009, 09:56:33 AM »

"Harsh" isn't the adjective I'd choose.  I stopped reading after, "satellite images showed two fields. Small fields..yards, really..but certainly preferable to someone‚Äôs home."

And that was your second sentence.  Thanks for writing that nonsense early in your harangue so I didn't waste any more time reading the rest of it.

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ogogog
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« Reply #169 on: February 16, 2009, 09:59:32 AM »

i wasted 3 minutes of my life on this guys blog that i wish i could get back,oh and id like to see you say what you wrote about the FO to her husbands face. i bet if there was a crowd of 100 people no one would see anything
« Last Edit: February 16, 2009, 10:03:18 AM by ogogog » Logged
michaelcrook
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« Reply #170 on: February 16, 2009, 10:02:35 AM »

i wasted 3 minutes of my life on this guys blog that i wish i could get back

Well, I'm sorry you feel that way, but as I said, ALL angles need to be looked at, and satellite photos of the crash site clearly show at least two areas that would be preferable for landing.  Would there still be damage to property on the ground?  Sure, but at least no one on the ground would have died, and maybe that family wouldn't have lost their home.
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ogogog
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« Reply #171 on: February 16, 2009, 10:07:25 AM »

you sir are the most uninformed aviation ignorant person ive ever had the displeaser of reading about, dont go away mad just go away
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iskyfly
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« Reply #172 on: February 16, 2009, 10:09:10 AM »

i wasted 3 minutes of my life on this guys blog that i wish i could get back,oh and id like to see you say what you wrote about the FO to her husbands face.
especially considering that the FO was the PNF.
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Biff
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« Reply #173 on: February 16, 2009, 10:25:01 AM »

as I said, ALL angles need to be looked at, and satellite photos of the crash site clearly show at least two areas that would be preferable for landing.

You think that was a landingHuh  Seriously?

Here's another angle for you to look at:  Why was the homeowner home?  Doesn't he have a job?  What was he doing there?  Satellite photos clearly showed businesses in the area where he could have applied for work.  Why did the house burn so fiercely?   Was he running a meth lab out of his house?   

Attention whores dancing on other peoples' graves.  Congratulations, you've gotten 4 minutes out of me.
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kea001
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« Reply #174 on: February 16, 2009, 10:29:11 AM »

Please disregard Michael Crook posts. Serial troll.

The Internet's Most Hated Man, The Strange Story of Michael Crook
http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/334035/the_internets_most_hated_man_the_strange.html
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NY Z Pilot
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« Reply #175 on: February 16, 2009, 10:39:56 AM »

I just wanted to share my blog, and coverage of this story:

http://www.michael-crook.com/flight_3407/

Although some have called it harsh, I prefer to look at all angles.

I am glad you had tape rolling on Buffalo when this happened.  Although I get the frustration of some pilots that don't want the tape to be released, it's important to know what happened.

you sir...are a waste of space.
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cessna157
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« Reply #176 on: February 16, 2009, 10:48:42 AM »

Now I have heard so much stuff listening to various airports here on Live ATC (love this site by the way!), but I have never understood what these 2 things are:

1. Localizer
2. Altimeter

1) To put it incredibly simply, imagine a straightline narrow radio beam that points down the centerline of the runway.  The radio in the airplane can tell which side of this beam it is on, and tells the pilot how far left and right he is.

2)  The altimeter in the airplane measures the outside air pressure.  The higher you go, the less air pressure there is, lower you go, greater air pressure.  This wold be very simple, except mother nature changes the baseline outside air pressure with weather (high pressure systems and low pressure systems).  The altimeter setting that ATC and ATIS  and ASOS gives is what the outside baseline air pressure is.  In North America we use a unit of an inch of mercury in a barometer.  Standard is 29.92 inches of mercury.  The average high pressure system would raise that to around 30.30" and the average low would bring it down to around 29.60", but it goes higher and lower.  The pilot just dials in what the controller tells him the air pressure is, and the instrument reads correctly.
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CRJ7/CRJ9 F/O, Travel Agent
Jason
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« Reply #177 on: February 16, 2009, 11:10:50 AM »

This is a respectful and knowledgeable community, please don't ruin it for those that wish to positively contribute, as many have in just this thread.

Personal attacks and trolling is not allowed and will not be tolerated. Any further behavior in this manner in other threads will result in the suspension or ban of your forum account.

Jason
« Last Edit: February 16, 2009, 12:57:52 PM by Jason » Logged
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