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Author Topic: Cranky Air Canada Captain  (Read 8246 times)
kylepetten
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« on: April 01, 2013, 10:35:24 PM »

Hello all,

Today I was flying from CYYR-CYQX tuned into Gander Centre and we heard an interesting conversation!

An Air Canada flight 656 inbound to CYYT also under Gander's control had an issue with the way the controller handled the traffic... Have a listen and see.

This clip is edited as to only include the involved traffic.

I also included C-GNLA conversation with Gander after Air Canada 656 had landed. He joked about the situation. Enjoy!

Kyle Petten
BE-02 First Officer
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Jetblast1
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« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2013, 06:57:53 AM »

Man what do I have a problem with understanding the pilot saying "Ok, we're gonna reduce and send you the fuel bill aswell"  I really couldn't make fuel bill out of it...  afro
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johnm1019
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« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2013, 07:59:50 AM »

How rude.  Someone was having a bad day. Geeze.
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727driver
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« Reply #3 on: April 03, 2013, 10:24:57 AM »

What a peach that guy must be to fly with. Funny he said he could accelerate too for sequencing, who is going to send that fuel bill to, himself? I feel sorry for the f/o because she probably had to spend he rest of the listening to him bitch about the controller and how he could have done it better.
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StuSEL
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« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2013, 11:05:58 PM »

It gets funny at the end...that captain was a jerk!
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CFI ASEL
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Jetblast1
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« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2013, 09:19:20 AM »

First I would llike to know who understand the situation here....

There are two airplanes and one controller.

The two airplanes are sequeced for landing, in other situations they would have been assigned with No.1 clearance for landing and No.2.

Both airplanes were to descent, but the No.2 descended 60 Knots faster than the No.1 and overtook the No.1 airplane.

In the normal world they would continue towards the runway and then there is the controller.
The No.2 would then be instructed to go around if the No.1 gets to close behind the No.2 and still lands first (hence the controller said the 737 was doing 170 knots and the No.2 was doing 240 knots).

So here's a sequence problem, are they going to swap the numbers or following the procedures?
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StuSEL
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« Reply #6 on: April 06, 2013, 05:53:04 PM »

First I would llike to know who understand the situation here....

There are two airplanes and one controller.

The two airplanes are sequeced for landing, in other situations they would have been assigned with No.1 clearance for landing and No.2.

Both airplanes were to descent, but the No.2 descended 60 Knots faster than the No.1 and overtook the No.1 airplane.

In the normal world they would continue towards the runway and then there is the controller.
The No.2 would then be instructed to go around if the No.1 gets to close behind the No.2 and still lands first (hence the controller said the 737 was doing 170 knots and the No.2 was doing 240 knots).

So here's a sequence problem, are they going to swap the numbers or following the procedures?
An approach controller will sequence IFR traffic to their destination airport runway, not the tower. Towers at busy terminal areas are mainly there to ensure the runways are clear and traffic is moving along efficiently. They do not have a sequencing function when there is an approach controller working the airspace around them.

The whole reason the approach controller was slowing Air Canada down was to prevent a situation whereby it would overtake and thus cause a loss of separation between itself and the traffic it was following. That is the inherent duty of the approach controller here, and Air Canada didn't seem to understand that.
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CFI ASEL
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digitalpretzel
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« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2013, 05:20:06 PM »

classy pilot comes in at the end.
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klkm
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« Reply #8 on: April 16, 2013, 10:42:23 AM »

Sounds like the captain wasn't all that wrong.  The Air Canada jet was ahead of the CanJet when they started down, the controller obviously never issued speeds to keep that sequence and when a 60kt overtake happened, instead of asking the front aircraft to go faster and the back to slow, she decided to turn the front aircraft behind the back one.  Basically, she decided to swap the order, without giving the Air Canada a chance to speed up to match the back aircraft.  That should have happened much further back then 8 miles when she turned them.  Then, as is typical with planes turning final, the CanJet slowed to 170 or less, and the Air Canada, still never issued a speed, was now overtaking the aircraft they were turned behind, and now they are being told to slow.  The CanJet should have been turned and slowed to stay behind the Air Canada.  It was an A319 vs a B737 so similar jets, easily could have been told to maintain speeds that would have kept them separated all the way in the descent. 
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