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| | |-+  Crash: Piper Cherokee PA-28-140 C-FRZH VFR - from Quebec City - Jan. 06, 2009
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Author Topic: Crash: Piper Cherokee PA-28-140 C-FRZH VFR - from Quebec City - Jan. 06, 2009  (Read 33266 times)
kea001
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« on: January 07, 2009, 03:32:48 PM »


Two were killed, including the pilot, while a man and a woman survived with serious injuries.
The woman managed to dial 911 which, for some reason, got picked up in Smiths Falls, Ontario which
is southwest of Ottawa.  Ironically, the government body that regulates cellphone service in Canada
announced today that cellphone companies have to upgrade the 911 services offered to customers to
be in line with the standards in the U.S.

But that's another story...
(and it's right here),
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/01/07/Canadian_cell_phone_911_overhaul_ordered/UPI-68551231339704/

...and I don't think it has anything to do with the outcome of this story, except that the initial call for assistance
came via Smiths Falls police to CFB Trenton rather than CYQB air traffic control. 

One thing that strikes me as odd is why people don't dress for disaster.  (FYI: I'm not a pilot)

Between the time of the initial 911 call and the arrival of responders was something like 3 1/3 hours. The temperature was -15° C. (+5° F.) or thereabouts. And the area of the crash was not really that remote, although being dense forest and low ceiling, it proved to be a challenge for rescue personnel.

"They were not wearing warm winter clothes," said rescuer Ghislain Fontaine. "When we found [the woman], she was completely frozen.
She could not talk, her face was frozen and her legs felt like wood."

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

This starts from initial contact with ground.

From what I can gather. the pilot flew right into a ski hill; Massif Du Sud - 3,000 ft., just south of Buckland, Quebec.
The controller terminates contact and 5 minutes later the pilot asks about weather conditions and compass heading.
This 5 minutes of dead air is cut out as well as other areas for clarity.  







Pilot Jesse Barrie from Pakenham, Ontario





More photos here:
http://www.cyberpresse.ca/le-soleil/actualites/justice-et-faits-divers/200901/06/01-815330-une-derniere-conversation-radio-a-donner-le-frisson.php

Globe and Mail article:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20090106.wplane0106/BNStory/National/home

Sound file edited from:
CYQB -  Jan 06-2009 0930
CYQB -  Jan 06 2009 1000

« Last Edit: January 07, 2009, 04:07:50 PM by kea001 » Logged
aviator_06
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« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2009, 08:49:15 PM »

Not sure if it's just me but, it sounds like the pilot wasn't very prepared for the flight.
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Flyingnut
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« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2009, 09:12:23 PM »

>> One thing that strikes me as odd is why people don't dress for disaster.  (FYI: I'm not a pilot)

I had a friend of mine, who was a Vietnam era B-52 tail gunner, tell me once:  " Hope for success, dress for egress."
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Marty
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« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2009, 11:36:58 PM »

Not sure if it's just me but, it sounds like the pilot wasn't very prepared for the flight.

I'm not sure where you're from, but about a month ago, I flew VFR from Montreal to St-Jean-Sur-Richelieu (approx. 20mins in a C172) and I had to go back because all I saw was white fields.  Sounds like he might have experienced a white-out.  He says he reported snow.

That last minute of the clip is literally bone-chilling... just hope that wasn't my friend's dad.
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englishpilot
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« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2009, 11:54:19 PM »

So sad, very chilling audio but thank you for posting.

The sad thing about aviation is that us pilots benefit from other people's trajedies with the use of retrospect. 

So sad it has to be that way.

God bless them and their families.
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I don't proclaim to be the best pilot in the world but I'm safe.
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« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2009, 08:14:04 AM »

One thing that strikes me as odd is why people don't dress for disaster.  (FYI: I'm not a pilot)

If you take your car on a two hour trip do you dress for disaster or put you coat, gloves, hat in the back seat?

Frank Holbert
http://160knots.com
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Frank Holbert
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kea001
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« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2009, 09:10:23 AM »


If you take your car on a two hour trip do you dress for disaster or put you coat, gloves, hat in the back seat?

Frank Holbert
http://160knots.com

I used to do that, until a few minor incidents with black ice and snow covered ditches and whatnot,
although I have drawn the line at wearing CO2 inflatable life jackets when using bridges to cross rivers. 
Considering Toronto's snow removal capabilities, or lack thereof, I dress for disaster when taking public
transit.

By the way Frank, you have a most excellent website.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2009, 09:26:07 AM by kea001 » Logged
KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2009, 09:11:42 AM »

If you take your car on a two hour trip do you dress for disaster or put you coat, gloves, hat in the back seat?

Good point.   However, logic suggests that the probability of being able to retrieving survival gear from a car after an accident would be higher than from a small aircraft accident.  As long as it is in a car it is probably going to still be useful - hence the recommendation that one carries a shovel, blanket, and water in the car's trunk for longer trips in a winter climate.

Compare this with the aviation saying that your survival gear is what you have on and your luggage is what you store in the aircraft.

With that pointed out, I admit that I now drive wearing a heavier coat, hat, and gloves in winter ever since learning about this survival tip for flying.
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
fholbert
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« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2009, 07:26:03 PM »

 As long as it is in a car it is probably going to still be useful - hence the recommendation that one carries a shovel, blanket, and water in the car's trunk for longer trips in a winter climate.

You're kidding... right?



Frank Holbert
http://160knots.com
« Last Edit: January 08, 2009, 07:32:28 PM by fholbert » Logged

Frank Holbert
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« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2009, 07:31:24 PM »

One thing that strikes me as odd is why people don't dress for disaster. 

Call me strange but I always figured help will be there in a few minutes?

 

Frank Holbert
http://160knots.com
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Frank Holbert
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« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2009, 12:14:15 AM »

Was reading the french transcripts between YBC controllers and the pilot.  Looks like he was lost.  Pilot was seeking a heading to St. Jean (Port Joli) with 208 miles to go. 

Plane was below radar coverage and it look to me the pilot took the heading suggestion from ATC (127deg.)  ATC had the plane tracking on a 127 degrees heading but the pilot stated he was on a 160 heading (Gyro, I assume had precessed).
Seems that the pilot did not correct his gyro and  turned 30 degrees left and nailed the top of the mountain just above the ski lifts.   See pics of mountain:

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challenger
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« Reply #11 on: January 10, 2009, 11:57:59 PM »

Classic case of unprepared pilot. Very sad to hear that audio...

ATC might be blamed in this. From what I understood from the audio (kind of hard), controler talked about VRF route at 6500 and 7500' and advised him to stay under them. (the controller might have asumed that the plane was on the correct course when he was not...) Probably just too low for that part of Quebec (mountains).... Will wait to hear what the investigation find out...
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Braun
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« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2009, 10:59:45 AM »

The controller said nothing of the sort. What he said is that if he wanted flight following for his flight that at 3500 the radar would lose him in 15-20nm and that he'd have to climb to 5500 or 7500 in order to stay under radar coverage. I don't see how ATC can be to blame #1 Crash is outside controlled airspace so terminal has no responsibility over the aircraft and is just helping him out of goodwill because it was definately not ATC's responsibility. #2 A VFR aircraft is alway responsible for terrain avoidance and maintaining VFR no matter what, even ATC assigns a VFR a heading (which did not happen in this case they were only suggested) the aircraft must remain VFR. To me it just sounds like a pilot who go caught in VMC conditions in an area he did not know very well, tried to make a turn back towards the airport and either spiraled down because he lost all visual markers and lost it or just didn't see the mountain and hit it. But I don't see at all how ATC can be remotely responsible for this incident.
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #13 on: January 12, 2009, 11:17:22 AM »

To me it just sounds like a pilot who go caught in VMC conditions in an area he did not know very well...

Is it possible you meant IMC, not VMC?
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
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« Reply #14 on: January 12, 2009, 09:35:32 PM »

Yeah sorry that is what I meant hehe! My brain was IMC this morning Tongue
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