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Author Topic: Double trouble at KSLC  (Read 14692 times)
Hollis
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« on: March 19, 2008, 11:04:46 PM »

SkyWest 88B had a bird strike and UPS 2844 had a flap problem.
The audio is a bit 'choppy' since the KSLC feed scanner picks up all freqs.
SkyWest 88B did sustain quite a bit of damage from the hit.
But I am curious about him having hit a bird somewhere between 13,000 - 15,000 feet altitude. The highest known altitude record of observed geese flight was reported at between 9,000 - 10,000 feet.

* KSLC tfc.mp3 (4117.59 KB - downloaded 1310 times.)
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iskyfly
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« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2008, 12:02:19 PM »

But I am curious about him having hit a bird somewhere between 13,000 - 15,000 feet altitude. The highest known altitude record of observed geese flight was reported at between 9,000 - 10,000 feet.
source?
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iskyfly
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« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2008, 12:09:42 PM »


IDENTIFICATION
  Regis#: SKW88B        Make/Model: CRJ7      Description: CANADAIR CRJ-700 REGIONAL JET
  Date: 03/18/2008     Time: 2344

  Event Type: Incident   Highest Injury: None     Mid Air: N    Missing: N
  Damage: Unknown

LOCATION
  City: SALT LAKE CITY   State: UT   Country: US

DESCRIPTION
  AIRCRAFT STRUCK A BIRD ON DEPARTURE AND RETURNED TO THE AIRPORT. DAMAGED
  WAS REPORTED TO THE NOSE, PITOT TUBE AND LEFT WING, SALT LAKE CITY, UT

INJURY DATA      Total Fatal:   0
                 # Crew:   3     Fat:   0     Ser:   0     Min:   0     Unk:   
                 # Pass:   0     Fat:   0     Ser:   0     Min:   0     Unk:   
                 # Grnd:         Fat:   0     Ser:   0     Min:   0     Unk:   

WEATHER: UNK

OTHER DATA
  Activity: Business      Phase: Climb      Operation: OTHER


  FAA FSDO: SALT LAKE CITY, UT  (NM07)            Entry date: 03/19/2008
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tyketto
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« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2008, 02:02:05 PM »

Interesting indeed on the Skywest incident.

If the Regis# is assumed to be the callsign during the flight, this would indicate that it was a commercial, money-making flight. If that's the case, 3 crew (pilot, FO, Huh) and no pax? If this were a maintenance flight or repositioning flight I'd understand, but wouldn't they use the Reg numbers for that instead?

BL.
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cessna157
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« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2008, 06:07:46 PM »

I don't think SKW uses the traditional 9xxx series flight numbers for ferry flights like the rest of the Delta family.

Also, they do some odd things with their callsigns on broken thru-flights.  I think Pinnacle does the same thing.

Delta stubs their late thru-flights into a 9000 flight number.  Comair's callsign always drops the first # from the flight number (ie. flight 5360 LGA-DAB is COM360) and adds 1000 to every second half of thru-flight (ie. flight 5360 DAB-LGA is COM1360).

So I'm not sure what SKY88B is.  Could it be the 2nd half of a thru-flight 3088?  Or is it some strange ferry flight number?
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tyketto
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« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2008, 06:20:20 PM »

Perhaps some other controllers here could pitch on on this, but form what I know and understand, the letter at the end of the callsign (assuming that SKW88B is the callsign) means that at the same time this flight was departing, there was another SKW88 already in the air or hadn't had their flightplan closed. Hence the 'B' to differentiate between the two. But it would still be weird that there would only be the crew on if this were a commercial flight and not a logistical flight.

BL.
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2008, 07:29:40 PM »

But I am curious about him having hit a bird somewhere between 13,000 - 15,000 feet altitude. The highest known altitude record of observed geese flight was reported at between 9,000 - 10,000 feet.

According to the US Fish and Wildlife website (linked here) Canada Geese have been observed as high as 29,000 feet.  Look towards the bottom of the page in the "Migration" paragraph for this one-liner.

edit:  The Science Daily website discusses another type of goose  that routinely migrates at about 29,000 feet (9,000 meters)

« Last Edit: March 21, 2008, 07:35:50 PM by KSYR-pjr » Logged

Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
Towerboss
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« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2008, 07:36:42 PM »

As a controller we have a SKW17A in and out here all the time. I asked one the question about the "A" being in the callsign and he said its a reposition flight.

TB   cool
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mk
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« Reply #8 on: March 21, 2008, 08:34:52 PM »

there is an AWI961A out of DCA daily...it doesn't denote strictly repostioning...it's a problem with the airspace computer...no duplicate callsigns can be "active" at the same time.  you'll see/hear a lot more during bad weather days too...

i doubt that air whiskey or any airline could afford a daily flight across the country just to reposition, and as far as i know they still use the company callsigns for that...
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Hollis
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« Reply #9 on: March 21, 2008, 08:41:55 PM »

SKW88B is a scheduled daily flight out of KSLC to KMCI.
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tyketto
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« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2008, 11:56:55 PM »

SKW88B is a scheduled daily flight out of KSLC to KMCI.

Good to know, and brings me back to my original question..

If the Regis# per the incident report is the actual callsign, they were flying a totally empty flight. Wouldn't that be a waste of resources and fuel?

BL.
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PHL Approach
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« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2008, 12:40:18 AM »

SKW88B is a scheduled daily flight out of KSLC to KMCI.

Good to know, and brings me back to my original question..

If the Regis# per the incident report is the actual callsign, they were flying a totally empty flight. Wouldn't that be a waste of resources and fuel?

BL.


Those reports are never to the T. I've seen things that were just not typed in correctly on them often.
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mk
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« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2008, 12:48:07 PM »

but with all the weather problems this week you never know...if an aircraft was stuck in chicago, and you had an available a/c in slc that could get to mci, you could cover the flight.  so they just make the callsign alphanumeric.  not saying that was the case here, but is most often a case in bad weather.  if all your planes are stuck, you cover what you can with what you have left. 

so they lost money..but hopefully were still able to cover a few flights to pull in some cash
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dylanh
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« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2008, 02:49:19 PM »

Guys, the weird callsigns you hear SKW88B, Unted916T, and so forth are all normal operating flights, ferry/repos, anything really.  I fly out of KSLC and the Denver area quite a bit and hear mainline United, Skywest, etc use these.  It has to do with cutting down on similar sounding callsigns where a particular operator has high density ops. They keep the callsign for the duration of the flight though. Thats what I've been told by a friend who flies for SKW.
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Hollis
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« Reply #14 on: March 22, 2008, 03:20:55 PM »

Let's clear up a little confusion here. The FAA incident reports almost never indicate the # of pax aboard and typically list it as 0, when in actuality there are paying pax on board.
SKW88B flies daily to KMCI - the afternoon run. Also:
SKW84Z flies the same route daily - the morning run. (Note the flt #).
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englishpilot
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« Reply #15 on: March 22, 2008, 05:35:42 PM »

SkyWest 88B had a bird strike and UPS 2844 had a flap problem.
The audio is a bit 'choppy' since the KSLC feed scanner picks up all freqs.
SkyWest 88B did sustain quite a bit of damage from the hit.
But I am curious about him having hit a bird somewhere between 13,000 - 15,000 feet altitude. The highest known altitude record of observed geese flight was reported at between 9,000 - 10,000 feet.


Actually if I remember rightly, the highest was well into the 30,000s, I think about 35,000 and I believe it was over Ireland.  Can't find the source.  A 767 once had one at 14,000 AGL climbing out from Charles de Gaulle. 

A Ruppell's griffon vulture has been known to fly as high as 37,000ft.
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Hollis
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« Reply #16 on: March 22, 2008, 07:28:10 PM »

I was thinking more of snow geese, or Canada goose which normally migrate at around 3000 ft. altitude, but have been seen as high as 10,000. The bar goose in Eastern Europe and Tibet area does fly routinely at 30,000 ft., but they are built for it. My guess is that the bird in question was probably of the vulture species and not a goose.
The higheast recorded aircraft-bird strike in the USA was a few years age when one was ingested into the engine of a commercial jet flight at an altitude of 21,000 ft. over Nevada.
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #17 on: March 22, 2008, 09:00:26 PM »

I was thinking more of snow geese, or Canada goose which normally migrate at around 3000 ft. altitude, but have been seen as high as 10,000.

Hmmm... I guess you missed the link to the US Fish and Wildlife website posted earlier in this thread that stated that the Canada Goose has been observed as high as 29,000 feet. 
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
bcrosby
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« Reply #18 on: March 24, 2008, 10:10:03 AM »

The Transport Canada AIM, has some information about the location, height, and quantity of migratory birds:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/CivilAviation/publications/tp14371/RAC/1-1.htm#1-15-2

The diagrams might be more readable with the PDF version.
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JayDub
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« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2008, 12:19:21 AM »

Just a little clarification on the callsign.  dylanh is correct.

First off...SkyWest 88B is, indeed, a daily scheduled flight out of KSLC to KMCI.  It is marketed as Delta Connection/SkyWest 4088.

We use these alpha-numeric callsigns all the time...primarily in/out of KSLC.  They are usually a variation on the marketed flight number.  We file these callsigns to avoid controller/pilot confusion during higher-demand arrival/departure banks at the hub because there are so many similar SkyWest callsigns in the same airspace at the same time during these banks.  We have a few flights out of KORD and KATL that we file this way during heavier departure banks.  I believe we started doing this at ATC request.

The "United 916T"-type callsigns you hear are typically stub amends for through-flight continuation...especially when the continuation flight number is operated on a different aircraft/type.

As far as our reposition/ferry callsigns...there are so many circumstances that determine what flight number we use on those...all the way down to which codeshare partner's paint is on the aircraft.  That said, we almost never use alpha-numerics for repo/ferry.

Hope this helps!
« Last Edit: July 23, 2008, 01:50:49 AM by JayDub » Logged

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IFRSteveD
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« Reply #20 on: July 15, 2008, 08:38:01 PM »

But I am curious about him having hit a bird somewhere between 13,000 - 15,000 feet altitude. The highest known altitude record of observed geese flight was reported at between 9,000 - 10,000 feet.

According to the US Fish and Wildlife website (linked here) Canada Geese have been observed as high as 29,000 feet.  Look towards the bottom of the page in the "Migration" paragraph for this one-liner.

edit:  The Science Daily website discusses another type of goose  that routinely migrates at about 29,000 feet (9,000 meters)



Was talking with fellow controller over the weekend, has been controlling for more than 25 years.  He told me the story of a P3 coming back from Europe to CFB Trenton (Ontario).  They hit a goose over Greenland at FL230.  Busted the windshield badly, fortunately the Pilot had just gotten up to take a leak.  They managed to continue on, but...the had to continue the flight to Trenton at 9000ft at a speed of 180.  (so the pilots didn't freeze)...Apparently it was a long long flight. LOL
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