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| | |-+  EGF4125 Runway Incursion at YYZ
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Author Topic: EGF4125 Runway Incursion at YYZ  (Read 6446 times)
derekjackson
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« on: November 22, 2011, 06:04:14 PM »

Sounds like it was a pretty close one!

http://www.avherald.com/h?article=44683ec1&opt=0

The Air Canada flight was able to take off before it hit the ERJ - tower controller was not impressed!

(non relevant transmissions edited out)
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travlaki
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« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2011, 06:41:35 AM »

I've lurked and listened to hours of audio over the years. This clip sends a real chill down my spine.

Question for experienced pilots: is 4125's read back even moderately intelligible to you? I understand that the sound quality we are getting on these recordings is often nothing like what the tower would get, but the quality of this clip doesn't seem to be an issue to my ears. Everything except '4125' is slurred. It's as if he's too cool to bother enunciating, kinda like "uh-huh, hold short, whatever  rolleyes".
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flyflyfly
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« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2011, 03:50:42 PM »

Unbelievable... Doesn't get any worse than that - short of an accident.

The controller really stayed calm. His "STOP STOP STOP" was super clear to understand - but didn't help with the ERJ crew, if avherald is right.
Maybe raising the voice and "shouting" the instruction may have woken up the ERJ crew sooner? Interesting to compare this recording to the recent and slightly similar JFK incident - with the controller almost yelling over the frequency:

http://www.liveatc.net/forums/atcaviation-audio-clips/cancelled-take-off-clearance-jfk/
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joeyb747
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Nothing Like A 747!


« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2011, 08:37:50 PM »

...close one...
Controller remained remarkably calm...
« Last Edit: November 23, 2011, 08:40:49 PM by joeyb747 » Logged

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mielsonwheals
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« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2011, 01:53:27 AM »

Sounds like it was very close indeed. Seems strange, especially with the readback / acknowledgement to hold short 24R in there. Something else might have been going on... distraction in cockpit maybe. Both pilots might have been doing the after landing checklists with their heads down, thinking the other one was holding the brakes, something like that maybe. Its easy to feel like you are stopped when you are looking in your lap, when you're actually creeping forward slowly.
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StuSEL
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« Reply #5 on: November 27, 2011, 01:12:37 AM »

Despite the readback requirement of hold short instructions and basically a Canadian equivalent of runway status lights, nothing can stop distracted pilots. I agree with travlaki, too; I hate pilots who mumble the readback.
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binky
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« Reply #6 on: December 08, 2011, 06:42:07 AM »

I'd say the controller didnt overly freak out because he was watching and either the ERJ was slow moving and had not yet entered 24R, or he observed that ACA was already airborne and able to clear the ERJ, or was already over them.  The bye bye from ACA doesnt sound like they were angry or shook up by it.

I like how he goes into 'we'll have to pull the tapes' mode so fast.
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MYGE90
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« Reply #7 on: December 08, 2011, 09:29:55 PM »

I dunno, to me the 4125's read back does sound like he does acknowledge the right turn near D4 hold short RW 24R instructions...I'd say he was busy doing something else and was rolling just ever so slowly....Now, with that being said, if I was the controller I would have first given the hold short RW 24R instructions to the 4125 before clearing the 614 for takeoff - just me though...any thoughts?
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