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Author Topic: Emergency landing at Buffalo  (Read 17110 times)
dan9125
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« on: January 21, 2007, 01:32:11 PM »

Caught this Canadair Regional Jet CRJ-200 (Acey700) inbound to Buffalo Friday night declaring an emergency. His flaps were stuck at zero degrees. Listen for the comment abouts his brakes at the end after landing safely. 

Dan
http://audio.liveatc.net:8012/kbuf.m3u
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hyderpotter
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« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2007, 06:10:17 PM »

Is this live?
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(Me) hyderpotter at Runway 18 takeoff to the north.
(Tower) hyderpotter1983 clear for takeoff Runway 18, Northbound
aviator_06
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« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2007, 06:20:40 PM »

You did the same thing as me. Click on the link below http://audio.liveatc.net:8012/kbuf.m3u in smaller print. I think everyone is downloading the live session instead of the clip. Made it confusing by putting the link to the live session below his name.
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dan9125
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« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2007, 08:21:35 PM »

Sorry about that....the link to the actual emergency clip is the small one at the bottom.

  Dan
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88nitro305
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« Reply #4 on: January 22, 2007, 02:45:40 PM »

What did he say about the brakes I couldn't hear it. huh
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dan9125
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« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2007, 02:49:27 PM »

When asked if he needed any help he said no but his brakes were a little hot. Anyone know what speed you land at with zero flaps as compared to full flap landing?
 Dan
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dan9125
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« Reply #6 on: January 22, 2007, 06:08:27 PM »

I found a cool video and put it on "youtube" i bet this guy used some flap!

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Greg01
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« Reply #7 on: January 22, 2007, 07:57:05 PM »

Dan,

The flaps play a major role in helping to reduce landing speed in the airliners. Without the flaps, the landing speeds range from 200-possibly 230 knots indicated.

Now i'm mad because i was supposed to go to the tower on Friday, but had to cancel because my mom had to work!

Thanks,
Greg
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dan9125
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« Reply #8 on: January 22, 2007, 08:28:06 PM »

Greg,
 I flew into KBUF Saturday night around 9pm on a Delta MD-88 from Atlanta, I was wondering if you were in the tower. Our pilot told the tower he was on a "high downwind for 23" . Never heard that term before, thought it was interesting.

 Dan
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Greg01
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« Reply #9 on: January 22, 2007, 08:32:43 PM »

Dan, nope i wasn't there.

Coming from ATL, they bring you up the west side of the airport, because generally you'll be coming from JHW or DKK. Then they'll take you northwest of the airport and the aircraft will generally still be at 6000 or so descending to 2300. Usually, the pilots will call the field in sight west of the airport (close to Lake Erie/mouth of Niagara River). Basically, they'll enter a downwind at 4K-6K, hence the "high downwind 23."

Greg
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2007, 09:23:01 AM »

I flew into KBUF Saturday night around 9pm on a Delta MD-88 from Atlanta, I was wondering if you were in the tower. Our pilot told the tower he was on a "high downwind for 23" . Never heard that term before, thought it was interesting.

Hey, Dan, downwind is a leg of the "visual" traffic pattern that runs parallel to the runway heading but in the opposite direction.  See here for a discussion of the components traffic pattern:

http://www.faa.gov/airports_airtraffic/air_traffic/publications/ATpubs/AIM/Chap4/aim0403.html

Your pilot was telling the tower where he was in relation to the runway after approach control cleared him for a visual approach (as opposed to an instrument approach, which is much more common in Buffalo Smiley ).  Note that a visual approach gives the pilot the freedom to approach the airport using the most efficient heading and altitude he or she chooses while remaining clear of clouds, terrain, and other traffic.   

A typical downwind leg is flown at between 1,000 and 1,500 feet above the runway's elevation.  In your case, your pilot was higher than that, perhaps around 2,000 feet above ground and descending.  Thus he was stating he was on a high downwind (approximately 2,000 feet or so and parallel to the runway, coming around to land) so that the tower controller would get an immediate mental picture of where the aircraft was.  I am pretty sure that Buffalo tower has radar in the cab, though, so the controller most likely already knew where the aircraft was. 

This verbiage is common when an IFR aircraft is cleared for a visual approach, but used just as often would be something like, "American Eagle XXX, visual 23." 
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
Greg01
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« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2007, 10:39:50 AM »

Peter has pretty much it the head on the nail.

BUF Tower indeed has a BRITE in the cab (actually they have 4, i believe).

Dan,

There is a VFR pattern at all airports. Generally all turns are to the left. Downwind is parallel to the runway. Base is perpendicular from the runway (before you turn final). "Left" and "Right" are the terms used to designate which way they will turn (i.e. left turn or right turn).

Sometimes we'll get the pilots who call, "Heeeey, tower, jetlink 2267, 5 mile right base for 23."

"High downwind" is almost always for arrivals from the south and west that are brough north of the airport (between IAG and BUF) but are kept high because of some obstacles. So, they'll be at 6000, call the field, cleared for the visual, and then start down. So by the time they call the tower, there about 4000MSL (a little higher than 2000AGL, Peter).

The main things is, very few pilots know which towers have BRITEs and which don't. So they just give there position initially so (if we didn't have a BRITE) we wouldn't have to ask or look.

To make things easier, what i'll do when on an instrument approach is something like, "Tower N40060 KLUMP for 23." I'll reference myself to the outer marker. The airliners will some times do that too.

Greg
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dan9125
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« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2007, 11:53:33 AM »

Thanks for the great info guys,
  Earlier this month when flying back from Atlanta we did a left downwind to 23, Saturdays flight was a right downwind. Just like you said greg, we flew over the lake,down the river and turned near the boulevard mall for our base leg. We actually started our decent as we crossed over Pittsburgh from 29000 feet. I could tell because I recognized 3 Rivers Staduim as it was a very clear night.
   Listening right now during a heavy lake effect snow storm....few planes in holding patterns!

 Dan
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dan9125
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« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2007, 01:03:51 PM »

Peter,
  Sounds like you had a nice ride into Buffalo this afternoon! Ice, wind gusts, moderate turbulance and blowing snow!  Welcome to Buffalo!

 Dan
« Last Edit: January 23, 2007, 01:38:37 PM by dan9125 » Logged

KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #14 on: January 23, 2007, 02:19:14 PM »

  Sounds like you had a nice ride into Buffalo this afternoon! Ice, wind gusts, moderate turbulance and blowing snow!  Welcome to Buffalo!

And the real bitch was the taxi from RWY 23 to the GA ramp!  Exiting 23 on taxiway Charlie my aircraft spun 90 degrees to the right, as the few intermediary taxiways I used and passed adjacent to RWY 23 were covered in perhaps 2 to 3 inches of snow.   
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
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