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Author Topic: Cirrus 7850P crash @ KSDL  (Read 8231 times)
notaperfectpilot
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« on: December 15, 2011, 02:43:00 PM »

A Cirrus tail#7850P crashed short of runway 3 at KSDL

http://www.liveatc.net/forums/listener-forum/cirrus-goes-down-at-ksdl/

edited out silence and unrelated traffic
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comperini
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« Reply #1 on: December 15, 2011, 03:24:03 PM »

Good catch.

The tower advised 50P that they might have to go around (because of the Gulfstream landing in front of him?), so I'm wondering if he was already flying a little "too slow" in an attempt to increase spacing, followed by him stalling.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/nephoenix/articles/2011/12/15/20111215plane-crashes-phoenix-neighborhood-near-scottsdale-airport.html
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notaperfectpilot
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« Reply #2 on: December 15, 2011, 03:52:31 PM »

Good catch.

The tower advised 50P that they might have to go around (because of the Gulfstream landing in front of him?), so I'm wondering if he was already flying a little "too slow" in an attempt to increase spacing, followed by him stalling.

Yeah, thats sort of what I was thinking given that the controller informed him to prepare to go around
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dphoenix
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« Reply #3 on: December 16, 2011, 10:18:17 PM »

it might have been wake turbulence as well. the controller never cautions him against wake turbulence and the G5 he was landing behind was a pretty big boy. If he was low and slow because of spacing, a wake turbulence encounter that close could have been fatal.
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ridejumpfly
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« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2011, 05:56:13 AM »

I agree wake turbulence could be a big factor.  I want to add though that the last recorded instruction to the pilot was to extend downwind and report the GLF5 in sight.  After a few attempts the pilot says he has the GLF5 in sight and will follow.  He turns in by himself and follows to close.  As she did not initiate the turn the wake turb sep is on the pilot and no caution call is required (as far as I can tell).  If he had said I have the GLF5 in sight but did not initiate the turn she would have said "Follow the GLF5, caution wake turb." Was it a good idea to give the caution anyway?  Probably for CYA.  Hopefully this doesn't come back to bite ATC.   The amount of read back errors she caught and corrected was huge. 

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StrongDreams
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« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2011, 03:42:27 PM »

Nice callout to liveatc in this followup article,

http://www.azcentral.com/community/scottsdale/articles/2011/12/19/20111219scottsdale-pilot-crashed-diverted-recording.html
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aviator_06
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« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2011, 08:29:15 AM »

I wounder if he just stalled on short final. Sounds like he was pretty distracted looking for the gulfstream and the sun being in his eyes. I do know that the wing design on the cirrus was made so that it was still very maneuverable even at low airspeed.
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