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July 30, 2015, 07:05:43 PM
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| | |-+  I'm gonna have to give you a full route clearance...
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Author Topic: I'm gonna have to give you a full route clearance...  (Read 261 times)
MochaHagotdi
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« on: July 29, 2015, 06:42:07 PM »

Caught this gem while listening to the ZLA 04/13/21 feed earlier this afternoon. VRD166 was climbing out on the LOOP7 departure out of KLAX. Center inquired whether VRD was direct TRM (Thermal VOR) or not. This in turn opened Pandora's box for a full (re)route clearance...

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/VRD166/history/20150729/1935Z/KLAX/KEWR

Original routing: LOOP7 DAG J100 LAS KD54U TXC OVR DSM EVOTE NELLS KEEHO J584 SLT FQM3

New Routing: HOLTZ9.TRM..PKE..DRK.J6.IRW..FSM..MEM.J42.BNA.J42.BKW.J42.GVE.PHLB03
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Flyingnut
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« Reply #1 on: July 29, 2015, 06:56:15 PM »

Looks like the "new" routing is not valid anymore, because the aircraft is currently over SE Minnesota right now. 

Marty
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Marty
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Brad G.
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« Reply #2 on: Today at 12:11:52 PM »

Really makes me wonder what flight strip Center was looking at as compared to what the cab and TRACON had, especially given that the new routing doesn't appear to have been followed. Sure sounds like somebody dropped the ball given Center's initial (and subsequent?) confusion.

Random question... why the heck would you read out "MEM.J42.BNA.J42.BKW.J42.GVE" rather than "MEM.J42.GVE" ?
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VictorAtienza94
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« Reply #3 on: Today at 01:20:10 PM »

Random question... why the heck would you read out "MEM.J42.BNA.J42.BKW.J42.GVE" rather than "MEM.J42.GVE" ?

I've been asking that myself for years...

I guess is kinda due to sector limits or something... huh huh

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tyketto
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« Reply #4 on: Today at 02:04:08 PM »

Really makes me wonder what flight strip Center was looking at as compared to what the cab and TRACON had, especially given that the new routing doesn't appear to have been followed. Sure sounds like somebody dropped the ball given Center's initial (and subsequent?) confusion.

The only thing I can think of for this was the metering for the weather delay that the NY area is having. KEWR and KJFK both have 2 hour 15 minute delays coming in and out.

Looking at the preferred IFR routes from the FAA (page 401), the preferred route for KLAX-KEWR is SID DAG J100 0BH J10 IOW J60 JOT J146 GIJ J554 CRL J584 SLT FQM–STAR

So giving them the reroute would have to pretty much be for weather, which they probably were rerouted again after DRK, which turns out to be the case.

BL.

Quote
Random question... why the heck would you read out "MEM.J42.BNA.J42.BKW.J42.GVE" rather than "MEM.J42.GVE" ?

good question. No real need for that type of read out on the clearance.

BL.
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Brad G.
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« Reply #5 on: Today at 02:47:34 PM »

I guess is kinda due to sector limits or something... huh huh
Very plausible. IIRC, back in HOST days, someone said the computers wouldn't behave well when a FP crossed an ARTCC with no points in/near the ARTCC it could recognize. All of the interim waypoints along J42 are right near an ARTCC boundary (e.g. they are fixes likely depicted/known for both ARTCC's enroute computers/scopes).

If so.. gotta love 1970s technology causing lengthier-than-needed in-air IFR clearances now in 2015.  rolleyes
« Last Edit: Today at 02:51:51 PM by Brad G. » Logged
VictorAtienza94
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« Reply #6 on: Today at 03:28:21 PM »

All of the interim waypoints along J42 are right near an ARTCC boundary

Exactly, BUT telling/reading the route for an aircraft is absolutely unnecessary.

It is okay for the system to read it and recognize it but if you're clearing an aircraft a re-route you can just read the short version smiley smiley
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