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| | |-+  If you're unfamiliar with an airport, it's not a good idea to fly there.
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Author Topic: If you're unfamiliar with an airport, it's not a good idea to fly there.  (Read 19584 times)
kmeyers6
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« on: June 14, 2012, 04:54:59 PM »

Gateway Tower KIWA owned N738XD this morning. 
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iflyhi
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« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2012, 09:22:56 AM »

OUCH !!
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A_J_D_C
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« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2012, 03:37:17 PM »

yep..... OUCH!!
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drcart
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« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2012, 08:25:00 PM »

I'm not sure we know the whole story here.   
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PHXCONXrunner
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« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2012, 09:06:40 PM »

Sounds like she busted the IWA Class D and flew through the approach course.
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martyj19
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« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2012, 09:34:56 PM »

I'm not sure we know the whole story here.

The story opens when she doesn't react to the controller's "Climb Immediately" which he is issuing because of a traffic conflict.  After that, she isn't very good at following instructions and distinguishing clearances meant for her from clearances not meant for her.  That has the controller at Witt's End.  Then she is taxiing all over the airport and doing the same to the ground controller.  I am not certain there needs to be more to the story than that.

I must say I have never heard anything quite like this where someone is declared a hazard in real time and commanded to land.

Karnak sees a 609 Ride in this lady's future.

The aircraft appears to be on this establishment's rental flight line.  http://www.arizonaaviation.com/index.php?PageId=11

One little tidbit that I first saw in Kershner's Instrument book, if a controller says "Immediately", they have a good reason and you best do it immediately.

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ogogog
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« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2012, 08:05:03 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GDkVjsSSDbg


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GT86iWiH2mI#t=35s







« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 08:09:16 PM by ogogog » Logged
Robert Larson
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« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2012, 10:36:04 PM »

Controllers can order pilots to land at a specific airport? Since when? I suppose I'd play along too as I'd be intimidated, but I'd have half a mind to say "unable" and then fly where the heck I wanted to. Only problem I suppose with that plan is that her intended destination was Class D too. They'd probably close the airport to her. smiley

I guess these overlapping Ds all under B airspace does make it pretty complicated. So I appreciate the controller's frustration too. Just not sure they have the authority to tell a VFR flight what to do like that. The messages I've gotten so far is all about how ATC is there for the pilot's benefit, not the other way around. This doesn't seem to fit that model.
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Jay
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« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2012, 01:36:45 AM »

Well, 91.123 obliges the pilot to comply with ATC clearances except for a number of reasons. None of them being 'they didn't wanna' or 'didn't feel like it'. Haven't listened to the tape yet but certainly that's well outside of the box for ATC but there isn't a procedure for everything so there'll be some sort of FAA action on both ends.
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Biff
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« Reply #9 on: June 17, 2012, 10:52:06 AM »

That, and ground control giving her hell for being unfamiliar with an airport she hadn't intended to land at. 
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WilliamJSS
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« Reply #10 on: June 17, 2012, 11:35:41 AM »

How do you not know you are blowing through airspace?Huh??
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keith
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« Reply #11 on: June 19, 2012, 08:10:28 PM »

If it was just an airspace bust, I doubt they would've asked her to land. It must be a list of things that had them ruffled...the lack of compliance with "climb immediately" would be high on the list as another poster eluded to.

I pity the controllers. I also pity her instructor for letting someone with such poor airmanship go for a check ride.  I'm thankful she got down safely and didn't get anyone hurt.

The controllers' command of the frequency was impressive. They were unflappable.
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esv216
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« Reply #12 on: June 20, 2012, 02:28:46 PM »

She's a little nervous on the frequency... that doesn't make her a bad pilot... it's possible to get your PPL without ever talking to a controller, you know.
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ridejumpfly
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« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2012, 03:38:07 PM »

How do you not know you are blowing through airspace?Huh??

Sectional charts, gps, situational awareness, local area knowledge.  Flying around the phx bravo and with so many "d" towers in the area you really need to do a good preflight planning.  If she learned to fly out of FFZ then she should be familiar from all of her training flights.
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kumara6
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« Reply #14 on: June 20, 2012, 05:06:46 PM »

She's a little nervous on the frequency... that doesn't make her a bad pilot... it's possible to get your PPL without ever talking to a controller, you know.

Where did you get your PPL?
Quote
FAR 61.109(a).5[solo hour requirements].iii :
Three takeoffs and three landings to a full stop (with each landing involving a flight in the traffic pattern) at an airport with an operating control tower.
It is not much time talking, but you're CFI will definitely have to prep you for this task and I think most if not all of them will sit with you to do it through your first time.
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