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Author Topic: Inadvertant IFR - Possible Class B Violation - Call this number...  (Read 8260 times)
weatherspectrum.com
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« on: January 24, 2012, 02:43:46 PM »

Circumstances are not entirely clear, and I do not want to speculate too much here, but sounds like a lesson for others that routinely fly VFR in/near Class B airspace.  

Pilot requests permission from Houston Center to climb on top to 9,000, is assigned 9,500.  He then requests to file a flight plan because "conditions weren't what they were".  He goes on to say he is "out" and can make a turn on course.  The remaining audio tells the rest of the story.  

Hate to single a pilot out, but, in a lifetime, a pilot will not make every mistake possible and these situations provide lessons to others.

Audio edited with only a few missing comms due to other frequency coverage.  Heard on KHOU.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2012, 02:50:28 PM by flperez3 » Logged
StuSEL
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« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2012, 12:00:54 AM »

I don't get it based on the recording. The pilot requested to open a flight plan and it doesn't appear the controller did so. Previously the pilot had said he was IFR equipped and capable, so that leads me to wonder why no IFR clearance was issued, especially if the pilot went into an IMC situation, even if it was inadvertent. The controller also implies by saying "We're not sure how you got on top in the first place" that the pilot violated a regulation, but let's remember that Class B only requires aircraft to be clear of clouds and that the approach controller doesn't know the location of every single cloud. Then the controller gave the pilot a direction that would take him out of the Bravo and into the Echo, where the cloud clearance restrictions are much more stringent than just "clear of clouds."
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« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2012, 05:29:40 PM »

Seems to me controllers were more interested in the violation than in making sure this guy had an out and a plan.  I know this guy sounded cool and collected but what if he was over his head and starting to panic and now he has to deal with a controller acting like an investigator.  Just what if felt like to me.
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esv216
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« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2012, 04:19:04 PM »

Controllers are supposed to help the pilots and save lives, NOT collect evidence against pilots are scoff about their mistakes.

This controller is so busy collecting evidence for the FAA that he seems completely uninterested in helping the pilot get down. What would he do if a pilot declared a fuel emergency... lecture him for not loading enough fuel?
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Robert Larson
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« Reply #4 on: March 27, 2012, 10:46:12 PM »

sounds like maybe he was vfr-on-top, but how did he get there without a clearance? Did he fly thru some weather to get there? I think that's what ATC was buggin about.
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« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2012, 12:59:03 PM »

I agree with the above comments, it sounds like ATC was not interested in helping this guy and was only out to get him.

That said, if you are in controlled airspace and are supposed to maintain VFR, and can't with the instructions they are giving you, you must let them know.
« Last Edit: March 28, 2012, 01:04:03 PM by dell30rb » Logged

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« Reply #6 on: March 29, 2012, 02:50:36 AM »

What if he found a hole? Asking him if he had a WX brief? Is this controller an Inspector form the local FSDO?

Sounds like the pilot was asked if he was qualified for IFR, then he asked to be switched over "on a plan",  then the controller came back with another lecture and said to let him know if he needs something.....Uh, I think he just said he wanted "to be on a plan" (bad terminology on his part)... get him an IFR sqwk and the services this guy obviously needs then send him to a suitable field away from he WX if Redbird is not possible and deal with busted regs later.

Controller should have assisted the pilot get down safely, collect his 'evidence', then have him call and chat about it, get others involved if it was still an issue. Grilling a pilot about a WX brief and asking him how he got on top of a layer is a punk move in my opinion. We are all on the same team, 99% of the controllers understand this, but then there's always a few that want to become aviation cops.
« Last Edit: March 29, 2012, 03:01:33 AM by rightseat » Logged
sacex250
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« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2012, 06:17:49 PM »

sounds like maybe he was vfr-on-top, but how did he get there without a clearance? Did he fly thru some weather to get there? I think that's what ATC was buggin about.

Well, if he was flying VFR over a cloud deck then he was "VFR-over-the-top" not "VFR-on-top."  It's not against the rules to fly VFR-over-the-top unless you're a student pilot.   The controller is really out of line here.  An instrument rated pilot requests to go IFR for deteriorating weather conditions and the controller gives him a bunch of unnecessary grief for it.  The controller should shut up and do his job and not second guess how a pilot maintained cloud clearance.
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davolijj
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« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2012, 11:43:19 PM »

sounds like maybe he was vfr-on-top, but how did he get there without a clearance? Did he fly thru some weather to get there? I think that's what ATC was buggin about.

That's the impression I got.  I think the aircraft in question popped up in class Bravo airspace after flying through some pretty nasty weather and what I assume were reported IFR conditions.

Well, if he was flying VFR over a cloud deck then he was "VFR-over-the-top" not "VFR-on-top."  It's not against the rules to fly VFR-over-the-top unless you're a student pilot.   The controller is really out of line here.  An instrument rated pilot requests to go IFR for deteriorating weather conditions and the controller gives him a bunch of unnecessary grief for it.  The controller should shut up and do his job and not second guess how a pilot maintained cloud clearance.

I've had situations where aircraft popped up VFR in the middle of all sorts of weather they really had no business flying in.  Then when I advise them about the weather they usually make a good decision and stay clear of it or land.  It really has nothing to do with if an aircraft is IFR equipped and capable or not.  The controllers know how aircraft are getting through the weather and if some yahoo pops up VFR in the middle of it, an IFR clearance isn't gonna keep the guy's airplane from coming apart.

As for the controller "shutting up and doing his job," who are you to say that he didn't?  Obviously we don't have the full recording, there are many fragments and clipped transmissions.  For all you know the pilot said he didn't want the IFR clearance.  If you were paying attention you may have heard the controller advising the pilot that a turn to the north would put him back in the weather so as far as I can tell the controller was doing his job.
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