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Author Topic: Interesting Day  (Read 10520 times)
Greg01
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« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2006, 08:43:28 PM »

Okay, after slaving over Audacity...i hope this sounds good (first try)!

Greg
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Greg01
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« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2006, 08:49:53 PM »

Forgot...my CFII was talking because there were some problems with the NDB and/or our ADF...trying to figure out what was going on. Me: i was flying the thing! Wink

Greg
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2006, 09:42:59 AM »

Okay, after slaving over Audacity...i hope this sounds good (first try)!

Excellent job on the on clip!   

After listening to your edited clip, I agree with your mother that you sounded bored.  Smiley    Add some inflection to your voice!  Smiley
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Regards, Peter
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Greg01
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« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2006, 02:42:24 PM »

I tried it when i went Tuesday. No matter what i do, that's the sound i get (and i really don't like the sound of my voice when i hear from a recording).

Now my mom says i sound "nasally". I can't figure out why because the mic is right next to my mouth (like it should be). I'm thinking it's the braces because there are certain things i can't pronounce.

The thing is, i don't want to add too much inflection because then i may blow the headset off the controller!  Wink

Thanks,
Greg
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dan9125
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« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2006, 09:12:06 AM »

Greg,
  Nice clip, that Audacity program is great once you get the hang of it. I'm glad I put Niagara Falls tower on the feed. One question though, Why did Buffalo ask you souls on board and fuel status? I don't hear that very often unless there is an emergency.

 Dan (KBUF)
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Greg01
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« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2006, 10:37:35 AM »

Dan,

Indeed, it's easier to use the more you fiddle with it!

It surprised me when i first started listening to BUF that I heard the IAG guys and didn't see their freq. on the list.

The way we work it in the BUF area when we want to do IFR training in the area is we ask for a "local IFR clearance." This way, we don't have to file on the ground. It's like getting a dirty clearance in the air. If you file on the ground, your flight plan has to go through the ARTCC (Cleveland, in this case) and they approve a route and give you a squawk. However, since we weren't going to leave the BUF TRACON area, they gave us a local squawk.

The way the "local squawk" works out is that each facility is alloted a bunch of numbers to give aircraft that will just be flying in the TRACONs area, only. For example, BUF is 04XX. If you're going to just stay in the BUF TRACON area (or you are inbound to land at BUF from within the area but wasn't talking to approach), they'll tell you to squawk 0443 or 0451, for example.

ASking for a local IFR clearance, we do not have to go through the ARTCC and they assign a local squawk instead of having the center assign one (therefore, we can't leave the BUF TRACON without getting a squawk from BUF that will put us into the NAS or some serious coordinaiton).

i believe that the gentleman working us was confused and didn't understand what we wanted. On a flight plan sheet, it asks for souls aboard and fuel endurance. I've never had them ask me that when i asked for a local IFR clearance. I was thinking he thought we were declaring an emergency (go back and listen, he asks if we want to be cleared back to AKron). However, i realized that he was asking us something that we routinely give out on a flight plan form.

So, in short, after my very long answer, he was just attaining information about our flight that he would normally have if we were to file on the ground. After thinking about it, he was helping us (in two ways), giving us the clearance and asking us that information because if we were to go down, they'd now know to look for 2 people instead of one.

One thing i do not know is why he asked us if our airplane was IFR cert. and that the PIC was IFR cert. as well...any thoughts.

Merry CHristmas,
Greg
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Miyridian
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« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2006, 04:06:28 PM »

In order to treat you as an IFR aircraft, you have to be IFR-equipped and rated, which is why he asked. If you weren't, you still could have done the approaches, but you wouldn't have gotten an IFR clearance as you did, and you would have had to maintain VFR conditions.

At least that's how I see it.
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Fryy
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« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2006, 05:53:30 PM »

I'm thinking it's the braces because there are certain things i can't pronounce.

oh man, braces. three dreaded years of those things, i just got mine off in august.
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Greg01
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« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2006, 10:09:25 PM »

Miyridian, well, i've never been asked that particular question before. Obviously we wouldn't have been out there if we weren't IFR (the WX was going downhill at the time). You are correct. You can practice approaches in VFR. In every approach clearance then goes as follows, "734NR, you're 5 from KATHI, cleared ILS 28R approach, maintain VFR." One thing that i noticied was that he didn't give us an altitude to maintain until established on a segment of the approach i.e., "...maintain 2300 until established on the localizer..." Logically, it makes sense if you're operating VFR because then if you had to maintain 2300 until established, you could possibly run into IMC. So, that was another interesting thing. However, my view of the situation was that the controller was confused. He may have thought that we were out VFR and ran into the WX (which was going downhill at the time) and needed a dirty clearance to get back to an airport. I probably should have cleared that up with him. That assumption alone would've prompted that particular question.

Fryy, I'm going on 5 years. Actually, i get them off on the 4th of Jan., exactly 5 years after i got them on. Now i get a retainer, however, at least i'll be able to take it off when i fly to be able to speak clearer!

Merry Christmas,
Greg
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davolijj
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« Reply #24 on: December 25, 2006, 12:40:45 AM »

Not to knit-pick but since we're analyzing...
Personally I think you should have filed a flight plan before departing.  I think the controller's confusion came when you requested a "local IFR clearance for some approaches at IAG."  He may have been looking in his proposal bay wondering where the strip was since many pilots file for a flight like that.  He also may have wondered if you wanted a clearance to 9G3 via radar vectors, or if you wanted your flight to terminate at IAG after some approaches.  The controller asked "...4NR are you ultimately going back to Akron, that's where you want your clearance to?"  The response was "...(clipped) IFR clearance to do some approaches into IAG."  An appropriate response would've been, Cessna 4NR request clearance to Akron via radar vectors IAG for practice approaches.

Also it's much more work for the controllers when you airfile like that.  IFR pop-ups are great for pilots but it makes the controllers play 20-questions on the frequency.  By the letter the controller should've also obtained pilot and aircraft info, and the color of aircraft.

You could eliminate alot of the clipped transmissions by using perscribed radio technique.  Here's a quote from the AIM regarding aircraft call signs (truncated):

Quote from: AIM 4-2-3,4
c. Subsequent Contacts and Responses to Callup from a Ground Facility.

Use the same format as used for the initial contact except you should state your message or request with the callup in one transmission.

3. Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft type, model or manufacturer's name, followed by the digits/letters of the registration number. When the aircraft manufacturer's name or model is stated, the prefix "N" is dropped; e.g., Aztec Two Four Six Four Alpha.

EXAMPLE-
1.
Bonanza Six Five Five Golf.

So your initial callup should've been, "Buffalo approach Cessna 734NR," instead of "Approach 734NR."  You do a nice job and you sound comfortable on the frequency but good radio technique is very important, especially in an IFR enviroment.  Good luck and keep at it  smiley
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Regards
JD
Greg01
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« Reply #25 on: December 25, 2006, 08:37:54 AM »

JD,

You're not knit-picking, my friend.

We never airfile to go to an airport outside the BUF TRACON area. This way, all they need to do is type us in as if we are a VFR aircraft. It may not be common in other areas, however, here it's like a unofficial LOA among the trainers that do NOT fly out of BUF and the BUF controllers. So, asking for a local IFR clearance is nothing new to the area.

About the "Cessna" part. There are three trainers at Akron that fly the most out of all in the area. In the BUF, we can omit the type aircraft because they already know. In another area, i would call it "Cessna 734NR."

I appreciate the compliments. Agreed, good technique is imperative.

A while ago, for some reason, i dropped calling the facility by name. Therefore, i'd just call them "Center" or "Departure", etc. Although, now i've started to bring the facility's name back in. Don't ask me why i dropped the facility name years ago, because i wouldn't be able to answer it. I honestly do not know.

I think the confusion arose because, when we took off it was pure VFR. However, by the time we called him, the WX was marginal and going down quickly. I think we just called at the wrong time.

Thanks,
Greg
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