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Author Topic: Interesting Day  (Read 17882 times)
Greg01
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« on: December 17, 2006, 06:42:10 PM »

Did some IFR work in N734NR in the BUF area today. Departed 9G3 to do some approaches into IAG.

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kbuf/KBUF-Dec-17-2006-1430Z.mp3

That's just one approach. I start talking shortly into the recording. You'll hear two voices coming out of 4NR. It's not because i cannot communicate, it's just we were having a problem picking up the LOM (NDB) and since my CFI owns the airplanes, he's always concerned about their well-being (hence why you hear him).

Pardon my slight "mumbling" sounding voice. I have braces on which makes it difficult to pronounce certain things (like November). I guess it's just the way they're placed in my mouth (i get them out on the 4th, so it won't be too long).

Anyway, just thought i'd share some of my adventures.

PS I really like to talk on the radio!  cheesy

Greg
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2006, 07:07:32 PM »

Hey, Greg, good job!    You sound very confident.  No doubt that IFR training will make you a radio expert.

One point:  You might want to consider downloading the free audio editor called Audacity.   With this tool you can edit the archive clip, snip out what is not relevant to your clip, then save it as an MP3 file and post the clip directly to this forum.  Eventually the archive files roll off the server, which makes references to them here somewhat limited.

Audacity is here:   http://audacity.sourceforge.net/download/windows

Also, get the LAME MP3 encoder, which you need to export to MP3 files:  http://audacity.sourceforge.net/help/faq?s=install&item=lame-mp3

That page includes easy directions for installing the one file needed for the LAME encoder.

One other tip:  When you first open an archive MP3 file in Audacity, immediately change the project rate to 44000 Hz.  You do this in the lower left corner of the Audacity window, as seen below.  Simply click on the project rate setting to see a menu of available choices, then choose 44000Hz.  Export the edited file as an MP3 file (File > Export as MP3) and you are good to go.



* audacity.jpg (42.76 KB, 544x277 - viewed 183 times.)
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
Greg01
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« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2006, 07:23:03 PM »

Thanks Peter, downloading right now.

My mom says I sound like a bored 40 year old man (I'm 16) speaking through a little tube (everyone else sounds clearer). I'll see if i can sound a little better next time. Also, I'll try and convert to an MP3 like you suggested.

Thanks,
Greg
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Greg01
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« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2006, 07:38:18 PM »

Okay, stupid question...how do i get the ATC recordings into Audacity?

I'm not really good with these programs.

Thanks,
Greg
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2006, 08:33:35 PM »

File > Open, then choose the MP3 archive.

It will import into Audacity's editor.  You can then highlight areas of the archive you want to remove, then hit your DELETE key to remove it.  Trim the clip to just the relevant material, and choose File > Export to MP3.  Assuming you first changed the "Project Rate" to 44000 Hz before exporting, you will save a nice MP3 file that can be played in most media players.  Upload it here and voila! 
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
Greg01
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« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2006, 09:21:55 PM »

Right...how do i save the recording from the internet as a file, that's the thing i can't do?

Sorry if this seems stupid, i'm just not used to this program yet.

Thanks,
Greg
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davolijj
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« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2006, 09:37:03 PM »

Right-click on the "listen" icon at the top of the audio archive page.



Then select "Save Target As..." on the drop-down menu and it will take you through the download process.
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JD
Greg01
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« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2006, 07:36:47 PM »

Fantastic...thank you!

Greg
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Greg01
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« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2006, 07:40:27 PM »

I tried right clicking and the "Save target as" is not highlighted (it won't let me click it!)

Greg
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davolijj
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« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2006, 09:06:08 PM »

Okay...just do it on this link then:

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kbuf/KBUF-Dec-17-2006-1430Z.mp3
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JD
Greg01
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« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2006, 09:23:24 PM »

Sorry, it's still not working!   huh

I must be really stupid!

Greg
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2006, 09:26:28 PM »

What browser are you using, Internet Explorer v6.0, Internet Explorer 7.0, Firefox, or some other one?
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
Greg01
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« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2006, 04:58:55 PM »

Internet Explorer V6.0, i believe. I'll try it downstairs as it as v7.

Thanks,
Greg
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nitroboie
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« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2006, 07:15:18 PM »

You can also try copy and pasting the link into the filename box in the open screen. You will have to wait for it to load though.
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Greg01
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« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2006, 08:02:08 PM »

Bingo...it worked...thanks!

Greg
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Greg01
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« Reply #15 on: December 20, 2006, 08:43:28 PM »

Okay, after slaving over Audacity...i hope this sounds good (first try)!

Greg

* IFR-Greg.mp3 (3749.86 KB - downloaded 923 times.)
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Greg01
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« Reply #16 on: December 20, 2006, 08:49:53 PM »

Forgot...my CFII was talking because there were some problems with the NDB and/or our ADF...trying to figure out what was going on. Me: i was flying the thing! Wink

Greg
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #17 on: December 21, 2006, 09:42:59 AM »

Okay, after slaving over Audacity...i hope this sounds good (first try)!

Excellent job on the on clip!   

After listening to your edited clip, I agree with your mother that you sounded bored.  Smiley    Add some inflection to your voice!  Smiley
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
Greg01
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« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2006, 02:42:24 PM »

I tried it when i went Tuesday. No matter what i do, that's the sound i get (and i really don't like the sound of my voice when i hear from a recording).

Now my mom says i sound "nasally". I can't figure out why because the mic is right next to my mouth (like it should be). I'm thinking it's the braces because there are certain things i can't pronounce.

The thing is, i don't want to add too much inflection because then i may blow the headset off the controller!  Wink

Thanks,
Greg
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dan9125
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« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2006, 09:12:06 AM »

Greg,
  Nice clip, that Audacity program is great once you get the hang of it. I'm glad I put Niagara Falls tower on the feed. One question though, Why did Buffalo ask you souls on board and fuel status? I don't hear that very often unless there is an emergency.

 Dan (KBUF)
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Greg01
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« Reply #20 on: December 24, 2006, 10:37:35 AM »

Dan,

Indeed, it's easier to use the more you fiddle with it!

It surprised me when i first started listening to BUF that I heard the IAG guys and didn't see their freq. on the list.

The way we work it in the BUF area when we want to do IFR training in the area is we ask for a "local IFR clearance." This way, we don't have to file on the ground. It's like getting a dirty clearance in the air. If you file on the ground, your flight plan has to go through the ARTCC (Cleveland, in this case) and they approve a route and give you a squawk. However, since we weren't going to leave the BUF TRACON area, they gave us a local squawk.

The way the "local squawk" works out is that each facility is alloted a bunch of numbers to give aircraft that will just be flying in the TRACONs area, only. For example, BUF is 04XX. If you're going to just stay in the BUF TRACON area (or you are inbound to land at BUF from within the area but wasn't talking to approach), they'll tell you to squawk 0443 or 0451, for example.

ASking for a local IFR clearance, we do not have to go through the ARTCC and they assign a local squawk instead of having the center assign one (therefore, we can't leave the BUF TRACON without getting a squawk from BUF that will put us into the NAS or some serious coordinaiton).

i believe that the gentleman working us was confused and didn't understand what we wanted. On a flight plan sheet, it asks for souls aboard and fuel endurance. I've never had them ask me that when i asked for a local IFR clearance. I was thinking he thought we were declaring an emergency (go back and listen, he asks if we want to be cleared back to AKron). However, i realized that he was asking us something that we routinely give out on a flight plan form.

So, in short, after my very long answer, he was just attaining information about our flight that he would normally have if we were to file on the ground. After thinking about it, he was helping us (in two ways), giving us the clearance and asking us that information because if we were to go down, they'd now know to look for 2 people instead of one.

One thing i do not know is why he asked us if our airplane was IFR cert. and that the PIC was IFR cert. as well...any thoughts.

Merry CHristmas,
Greg
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Miyridian
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« Reply #21 on: December 24, 2006, 04:06:28 PM »

In order to treat you as an IFR aircraft, you have to be IFR-equipped and rated, which is why he asked. If you weren't, you still could have done the approaches, but you wouldn't have gotten an IFR clearance as you did, and you would have had to maintain VFR conditions.

At least that's how I see it.
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Fryy
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« Reply #22 on: December 24, 2006, 05:53:30 PM »

I'm thinking it's the braces because there are certain things i can't pronounce.

oh man, braces. three dreaded years of those things, i just got mine off in august.
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Greg01
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« Reply #23 on: December 24, 2006, 10:09:25 PM »

Miyridian, well, i've never been asked that particular question before. Obviously we wouldn't have been out there if we weren't IFR (the WX was going downhill at the time). You are correct. You can practice approaches in VFR. In every approach clearance then goes as follows, "734NR, you're 5 from KATHI, cleared ILS 28R approach, maintain VFR." One thing that i noticied was that he didn't give us an altitude to maintain until established on a segment of the approach i.e., "...maintain 2300 until established on the localizer..." Logically, it makes sense if you're operating VFR because then if you had to maintain 2300 until established, you could possibly run into IMC. So, that was another interesting thing. However, my view of the situation was that the controller was confused. He may have thought that we were out VFR and ran into the WX (which was going downhill at the time) and needed a dirty clearance to get back to an airport. I probably should have cleared that up with him. That assumption alone would've prompted that particular question.

Fryy, I'm going on 5 years. Actually, i get them off on the 4th of Jan., exactly 5 years after i got them on. Now i get a retainer, however, at least i'll be able to take it off when i fly to be able to speak clearer!

Merry Christmas,
Greg
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davolijj
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« Reply #24 on: December 25, 2006, 12:40:45 AM »

Not to knit-pick but since we're analyzing...
Personally I think you should have filed a flight plan before departing.  I think the controller's confusion came when you requested a "local IFR clearance for some approaches at IAG."  He may have been looking in his proposal bay wondering where the strip was since many pilots file for a flight like that.  He also may have wondered if you wanted a clearance to 9G3 via radar vectors, or if you wanted your flight to terminate at IAG after some approaches.  The controller asked "...4NR are you ultimately going back to Akron, that's where you want your clearance to?"  The response was "...(clipped) IFR clearance to do some approaches into IAG."  An appropriate response would've been, Cessna 4NR request clearance to Akron via radar vectors IAG for practice approaches.

Also it's much more work for the controllers when you airfile like that.  IFR pop-ups are great for pilots but it makes the controllers play 20-questions on the frequency.  By the letter the controller should've also obtained pilot and aircraft info, and the color of aircraft.

You could eliminate alot of the clipped transmissions by using perscribed radio technique.  Here's a quote from the AIM regarding aircraft call signs (truncated):

Quote from: AIM 4-2-3,4
c. Subsequent Contacts and Responses to Callup from a Ground Facility.

Use the same format as used for the initial contact except you should state your message or request with the callup in one transmission.

3. Civil aircraft pilots should state the aircraft type, model or manufacturer's name, followed by the digits/letters of the registration number. When the aircraft manufacturer's name or model is stated, the prefix "N" is dropped; e.g., Aztec Two Four Six Four Alpha.

EXAMPLE-
1.
Bonanza Six Five Five Golf.

So your initial callup should've been, "Buffalo approach Cessna 734NR," instead of "Approach 734NR."  You do a nice job and you sound comfortable on the frequency but good radio technique is very important, especially in an IFR enviroment.  Good luck and keep at it  smiley
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Regards
JD
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