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Author Topic: JFK GND getting upset  (Read 34123 times)
knish1231
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« on: October 28, 2006, 10:11:13 AM »

I caught this last night when listening to JFK ground.  Around 8:30PM it seemed like the scnner was not scanning all of the frequencies but was stuck on just one. 

First ETD503 gives the controller some problems, then Asiana 222 does not help the situation.  Lastly I threw in UA017 comes on to bust the controllers chops some more.  It just was not this controllers good night.

I cut out all of the other traffic.  Hope you enjoy.

Thanks,
Pete
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RayZor
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« Reply #1 on: October 28, 2006, 10:32:16 AM »

What was that yelling in the background at about 3:04?
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knish1231
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« Reply #2 on: October 28, 2006, 10:34:12 AM »

I don't know, but it did catch my attention.  i was not listening to any other frequency.

Pete
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PHL Approach
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« Reply #3 on: October 28, 2006, 12:20:16 PM »

Sounded like someone on another position was letting out some frustration off frequency.
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Squawk 7700
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« Reply #4 on: October 28, 2006, 03:05:23 PM »

Yeah, I heard the yelling in the background too?
I "feel" for the pilots, that controller needs to go to anger management class.
Great recording, thanks for sharing.
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« Reply #5 on: October 28, 2006, 09:13:02 PM »

Yeah, I heard the yelling in the background too?
I "feel" for the pilots, that controller needs to go to anger management class.

yeah but anger managment wouldnt be any funner than yelling and throwing and kicking and breaking things would it? grin angry undecided
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Yankee
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« Reply #6 on: October 30, 2006, 06:50:18 PM »

I think this is the same guy "buzzing" both Iberia and Singapore Cargo earlier  evil

Anyway, I tought from the way he talked that the ".. next time, be polite with me OK?!" from the pilot kinda made him loosen up a little.. I'm more interessted in what the yelling in the background came out for  tongue
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flyer_d
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« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2006, 11:44:56 AM »

More B.S. from JFK ground (see prior thread) . . . .

The controller asked "where do you park" and the pilot responded with the answer to that question ("bravo 28").  (To see that this tells the controller where he's going, see http://www.panynj.gov/aviation/jtframe.htm .  In fact, the gate is right under the control tower.)

The controller then says "the taxiway; the letter!" and "what taxiway do you enter the ramp?"  Frankly, I don't know that I would understand what he is asking with those communications, especially if I just answered the question of where I was parking, and this pilot doesn't understand either.  The really annoying part is that it is clear the pilot doesn't undersand this communication, and the controller just keeps repeating the same non-standard phrase "what taxiway do you enter the ramp?" with increasing aggitation.  That's plainly not helpful.  If the pilot doesn't understand, maybe he should rephrase?  Nah, yelling is always helpful.

It only gets worse.  What is "turn right here"?  And what is "get with it"?  And how the h_ll is the pilot supposed to know whether Hotel will be open?  Ugh . . .
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Adrian8
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« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2006, 07:55:47 PM »

"what taxiway do you enter the ramp?"

A few things. How do you suggest this be rephrased?  Also, I didn't really notice an increase in volume, perhaps only when the pilot pointlessly said he was going to "make a report".  Forgive the controller for not using perfect phraseology, though I don't know what that would be in this situation.  Seems pretty standard since they ask pretty much every pilot which taxiway they're going in. Seems, also, that the pilot is suppoed to know that Ground has control over the taxiways.  I find it odd that people are so quick to forgive pilots that don't understand English and essential operational procedures. 
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Pygmie
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« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2006, 08:03:25 PM »

The controller asked "where do you park" and the pilot responded with the answer to that question ("bravo 28").  (To see that this tells the controller where he's going, see http://www.panynj.gov/aviation/jtframe.htm .  In fact, the gate is right under the control tower.)

That doesn't necessarily tell the controllers where he is parking.  If you look at that link you provided, there are 2 B23's.  One for Terminal 4, the other for Terminal 8.  Also, if you listen to the JFK feeds, they ask most aircraft what taxiway they're going into the ramp on.
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phat_farm
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« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2006, 11:19:01 PM »

at least he didn't go STOP YOUR PLANE!!!  grin
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flyer_d
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« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2006, 09:57:56 AM »

at least he didn't go STOP YOUR PLANE!!!  grin

Actually, he did later in the clip.
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flyer_d
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« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2006, 09:58:58 AM »

The controller asked "where do you park" and the pilot responded with the answer to that question ("bravo 28").  (To see that this tells the controller where he's going, see http://www.panynj.gov/aviation/jtframe.htm .  In fact, the gate is right under the control tower.)

That doesn't necessarily tell the controllers where he is parking.  If you look at that link you provided, there are 2 B23's.  One for Terminal 4, the other for Terminal 8.  Also, if you listen to the JFK feeds, they ask most aircraft what taxiway they're going into the ramp on.

Nope.  Terminal 4 is international arrivals (except for some specific exceptions that don't apply here).
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flyer_d
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« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2006, 10:25:50 AM »

"what taxiway do you enter the ramp?"

A few things. How do you suggest this be rephrased?

Well, with all respect, that's not my job.  Also, see below my last comment regarding procedures.

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Also, I didn't really notice an increase in volume, perhaps only when the pilot pointlessly said he was going to "make a report".

I disagree, but I suppose that's in the ear of the listener.

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Forgive the controller for not using perfect phraseology, though I don't know what that would be in this situation.

No, I won't, particularly if this really is "standard."  Any standard procedure needs well know standard phrases and procedures.

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Seems pretty standard since they ask pretty much every pilot which taxiway they're going in.

I have reviewed all AFD information on JFK and significant supplemental information not in the AFD, and I have never seen any discussion of this procedure.  Indeed, it is ground's responsibility to select appropriate taxiways.  If someone can point to an official FAA publication to the contrary, please do.

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Seems, also, that the pilot is suppoed to know that Ground has control over the taxiways.

Right.  Which is why the pilot was confused when the controller asked him to select his own taxiway.

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I find it odd that people are so quick to forgive pilots that don't understand English and essential operational procedures.

Not the point (even if it is a legitimate observation, which it is).  I understand English and had reviewed JFK procedures (before listening to the clip) and I did not know what he was talking about.  Also, your statement presumes that it is an essential operational procedure.  If it is, in fact, an essential procedure, then the tower/FAA should establish and publish procedures.  For example, I am aware that landing pilots are expected to specify their hangar.  I have seen that published in JFK guidance.  Even if that applies to commercial ops (not sure; didn't have cause to check), that would have been fulfilled by the pilot's first response (gate number).

If you're interested in these issues of procedures and phraseology, I highly recommend Don Brown's columns on AvWeb.  http://www.avweb.com/news/sayagain/
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Mazrim Taim
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« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2006, 12:48:53 PM »

For some reason I can not hear the clip. I click on it and it opens but then the clip never plays.
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