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Author Topic: JFK tower getting mad  (Read 52296 times)
KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #15 on: July 27, 2006, 12:56:46 PM »

Pilot did nothing wrong. That controller should be the one that lost his temper.

Not sure of your point here.  The controller was the one who lost his temper.   

 
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mrpoche
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« Reply #16 on: July 27, 2006, 07:09:32 PM »

Actually its not tower but Ground who lost his temper.  I hope he has been criticised for that.
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PHL Approach
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« Reply #17 on: July 27, 2006, 08:27:44 PM »

Actually its not tower but Ground who lost his temper.  I hope he has been criticised for that.

It was late a night, all positions were combined... Same guy working everything. Hence why he said "You changed frequencies, but you've been talking to the same guy all night"
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valo_j
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« Reply #18 on: July 30, 2006, 12:23:02 AM »

Quote
It was late a night, all positions were combined... Same guy working everything. Hence why he said "You changed frequencies, but you've been talking to the same guy all night"



"all positions were combined"
Sure ,in the night..
But why not to combine all the frequency into  one only?
« Last Edit: July 30, 2006, 12:25:51 AM by valo_j » Logged

frantzy
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« Reply #19 on: July 30, 2006, 01:02:34 AM »

Quote
It was late a night, all positions were combined... Same guy working everything. Hence why he said "You changed frequencies, but you've been talking to the same guy all night"



"all positions were combined"
Sure ,in the night..
But why not to combine all the frequency into  one only?


Because they're printed on the charts.   Tower xxx.xx, Ground yyy.yy, and so forth
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The Hoffspatcher
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« Reply #20 on: July 30, 2006, 01:58:03 AM »

Thats not bad for a laugh, poor pilot on the recieving end

As a side note, during the night, many airpots combine thier frequencies, e.g. MSY/IAD etc but they put a NOTAM in the ATIS such as "USE XXX.XX FOR DEL/GND/TWR"
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Ben Hoffman; BAv, ADX
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chashulme
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« Reply #21 on: July 30, 2006, 04:40:23 PM »

Hmmm, don't know how many pilots and/or ctrls are in this thread, but as a pilot I feel compelled to stick up for the ctrlr. He was operating in combined position with a Singapore Cargo pilot who couldn't seem to confirm a simple taxi and route clnc. Add the accent/lang issue, plus a tired ctrlr, and the result is a demonstration that we are all human. The NYC corridor is the most demanding for all in the system, bar none, esp controllers. It demands that all involved fit into the flow, which is what the pilot was not doing... Their was no major beef with Avianca 20, just a rollout clnc clarification after the altercation with SingCargo. I'm afraid the peppering of repetitive questions was like Chinese water torture to the ctrlr (pun intended)... And I should also point out that this is mild in the overall scheme of things, for NY. So, I wouldn't crucify the ctrlr here... I think it's better to exchange a few frank words than get a clnc wrong and have a bad outcome... All pilots who've been thru NY know it's tough... Just my two cents...
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KMSY
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« Reply #22 on: July 30, 2006, 07:29:54 PM »

I know at MSY twr/gnd/del and app/dep from/into MSY are combined on the tower frequency 119.5 after about 2000. Traffic here is almost half what it was before the storm (As of 7/13: 107 from 166 daily departures-64% before storm). It works pretty well. I haven't had a chance to listen to ATIS late at night, but tonight I will and see what they say.

How would one guy control, say 3 freqs? How would you get three transmit buttons to one person? I don't see how that's possible.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2006, 07:34:35 PM by KMSY » Logged

PHL Approach
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« Reply #23 on: July 30, 2006, 08:10:05 PM »

One doesn't have three - five push to talk buttons. It's all routed via landlines/telephone lines to the transmitters. In order to transmit on other frequencies. All that is done is that several buttons on these touchscreen monitors are engaged so that it makes the all the transmitters that you want in full duplex start operating from the same unit in which your plugged into.

Enhanced Terminal Voice Switch (ETVS) - Associated with STARS builds


Rapid Deployment Voice Switch (RDVS) - Associated with ACD (ARTS Color Display) builds


Down below on the desk in front of her you can see the Voice Switching and Control System (VSCS) - Associated with DSR builds - ARTCC's. You can actually see she is transmitting and recieving on three frequencies (They are illuminated green on the screen)
« Last Edit: July 30, 2006, 08:14:04 PM by PHL Approach » Logged
davolijj
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« Reply #24 on: July 30, 2006, 09:17:34 PM »

Thanks Ed for the nice summary of the voice switching system in use at most FAA facilities.  Nice job, and by the way, all of those systems are used to access not only Air-to-Ground (A/G) channels, but Ground to Ground (G/G) land-lines as well.  And don't forget many older towers (especially non-federal ones) use a more dated ICSS, or Integrated Communication selection system.
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JD
Luis_C
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« Reply #25 on: July 31, 2006, 06:06:07 PM »

Funny, but sad at the same time.

Wow... it sure sounds like he's had a long night.  I love the part where the controller says "You've switched frequencies but you've been talking to the same guy all night..."   afro


Yeah that's really good.

May be wrong but it sounded like Finn Cargo

Jackie

That makes me feel much better, because sometimes I have some trouble understanding the call signs, because English isn't my first language, but now I see that is even common with natives.

Pilot did nothing wrong. That controller should be the one that lost his temper.

Yeah, lol, there's some vibes in the air, that when the tower and pilots aren't of the same country, sometimes this kind of stuff happens.
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valo_j
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« Reply #26 on: August 04, 2006, 11:06:48 AM »

Quote
It was late a night, all positions were combined... Same guy working everything. Hence why he said "You changed frequencies, but you've been talking to the same guy all night"



"all positions were combined"
Sure ,in the night..
But why not to combine all the frequency into  one only?


Because they're printed on the charts.   Tower xxx.xx, Ground yyy.yy, and so forth


.....
That's the very truth,
But what I mean is doing in the night ,just in order to avoid confusion

However,we combined it in the night when positions combined...
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valo_j
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« Reply #27 on: August 04, 2006, 11:32:02 AM »


Down below on the desk in front of her you can see the Voice Switching and Control System (VSCS) - Associated with DSR builds - ARTCC's. You can actually see she is transmitting and recieving on three frequencies (They are illuminated green on the screen)

In our country ,it is prohibitted that transmitting and recieving on three frequencies via the voice switching system when the position was separated
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deanbush
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« Reply #28 on: August 17, 2006, 07:04:28 PM »

I train controllers from all over the world in ATC-pilot communications.  This a a textbook example of what NOT to do.  The supervisor should have immediately removed him from his position.
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RobertK
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« Reply #29 on: August 27, 2006, 05:37:51 AM »

Yay, first post here.

So, after listening to this, I didn't find anything *really* bad about this controller's behaviour.
He didn't call anyone names, he didn't shout, it was just a short sigh of frustration in my book, not even worthy to be called "getting mad" really.

Sure, not extremely professional and he certainly should try to avoid it, but I also don't think it warrants a removal from the position by the supervisor - a heads-up "that was wrong" would certainly be justified though.

Neither do I see that Sing Cargo pilot at error very much, he seemed pretty dense at that time, but it is certainly better to ask for clarification then to act on belief. "I have no clue what I am meant to do, but I believe I can get it right".

Regards,

Robert
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