Author Topic: KFDK Mid-air crash thread.....  (Read 27884 times)

Offline RaisinBran

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
KFDK Mid-air crash thread.....
« on: October 24, 2014, 01:13:05 PM »
Just curious as to what happened to that thread......



Offline stinger

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 4
Re: KFDK Mid-air crash thread.....
« Reply #1 on: October 24, 2014, 01:26:40 PM »
Not sure, I saw it last night when there was probably 5-6 replies. One user mentioned that his brother was in the helicopter.

Offline blakepilot

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 51
    • KDAL LiveATC
Re: KFDK Mid-air crash thread.....
« Reply #2 on: October 24, 2014, 01:44:25 PM »
Thread was removed, which I personally think is a great call having heard the tape.  If you want to hear it that bad, you can find it.  As a pilot, hearing what I heard is my worst fear while flying.  RIP to those who died.

Offline stlsmiths

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: KFDK Mid-air crash thread.....
« Reply #3 on: October 24, 2014, 01:47:28 PM »
Blakepilot:   I too am a pilot and requested that the audio thread at least be edited to remove a few seconds of agony, not really necessitating complete removal. 

Offline dave

  • Site Founder
  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4597
    • LiveATC.net
Re: KFDK Mid-air crash thread.....
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2014, 01:52:14 PM »
The thread and audio have been removed due to overwhelming negative feedback.  A very sad day and I am not about to entertain any debate about the decision.  Let's all have some compassion.  And for those of us who fly, remember....that could have been one of us.

Offline dlbcrjpilot

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: KFDK Mid-air crash thread.....
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2014, 02:16:14 PM »
I actually heard that audio, and that was the worst thing ive heard in a long time. My heart is so heavy right now. I truly hope that what I heard wasnt the heli pilot..
My wife has sealed the deal on my flying... and after this terrible October we've had in General Aviation.... its difficult to look my 3yr old in the face and say.. "Daddy will be back in a bit.." Then, something like this happens....   :cry:

Makes me imagine all the loses we've had this year alone, where this was likely what was being said before they perished..

Life is so fragile...  Be safe guys.. Please be safe
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 02:18:35 PM by dlbcrjpilot »

Offline RaisinBran

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
Re: KFDK Mid-air crash thread.....
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2014, 02:20:31 PM »
The thread and audio have been removed due to overwhelming negative feedback.  A very sad day and I am not about to entertain any debate about the decision.  Let's all have some compassion.  And for those of us who fly, remember....that could have been one of us.


Thanks for the explain Dave!  Indeed it was tragic and my heart goes out to everyone involved: victims, survivors and the controllers who witnessed this tragedy.  Being related to one of the controllers involved, it's very difficult.

Offline idriveacomet

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: KFDK Mid-air crash thread.....
« Reply #7 on: October 24, 2014, 08:23:53 PM »
Not sure, I saw it last night when there was probably 5-6 replies. One user mentioned that his brother was in the helicopter.

My brother was the instructor pilot.  He was doing what he loved as a career.  I too wonder if that was him I heard in the audio.  Although I am pretty certain it was.  
I love him very much.  
Thanks to all for your prayers and condolences.

Brian
« Last Edit: October 24, 2014, 09:26:13 PM by idriveacomet »

Offline Robert Larson

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 114
Re: KFDK Mid-air crash thread.....
« Reply #8 on: October 24, 2014, 08:30:36 PM »
Remember you're MUCH more likely to die on your drive to the airport. Keep your head on a swivel. See and avoid.  'Course, helps to have a CAPS equipped Cirrus too if you can get one.

Offline Turbo69bird

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: KFDK Mid-air crash thread.....
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2014, 09:26:36 PM »
Let me start by saying, I hope this us received well and taken the way I intend, it's always hard with writing to convey emotion. I didn't hear the audio, didn't even know there was any controversy over it or that it contained anything, agonizing.

I do however, try to listen to any accident atc recordings. Not for entertainment in any way, but to help keep me from ever doing anything that might get me or anyone else in trouble, to keep me learning, and to keep me respecting what could happen.

It's human nature to Push the envelope in some way,(not that it was a factor in this case) or none of us would even consider flying. However hearing the voices of our fellow pilots in distress or who didn't make it, makes it very real (at least for me) I don't ever forget it. I think about those voices every time I climb in a plane and I feel like I owe it to those pilots to do the right thing and be a very safe pilot. To always ( try to) err on the side of caution. Some guys bust my stones for being so safety conscious, but Its those who didn't make it, that keep me trying my hardest to be safe.

I for one listen with the utmost respect for the people on the tapes.

Having not heard it, I can't judge what was on it or the decision to remove it. ( IMO it should be up to those close to the people)

 I do know, I grieve, for the Family's of the people from this crash and any other crash. I'm sure it's little comfort, but Id like to think each crash Ive looked into has given me one tip, one piece if information that makes me be a little bit safer, More so than any text book could.

Sadly where there's traffic there will probably always be accidents., maybe ADSB in and out will help to minimize this type if thing in the future, Help us to know where each other are located. It's certainly not always easy to know.

Offline mdflyer9

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 1
Re: KFDK Mid-air crash thread.....
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2014, 11:51:15 PM »

Offline InterpreDemon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 514
Re: KFDK Mid-air crash thread.....
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2014, 12:15:47 AM »
One of the local TV news programs played the full audio and said that all of the voices heard were those of either ATC or survivors, though how they could have known that early on is beyond me unless they already interviewed the two released from the hospital and one of them claimed the haunting transmission in question was in fact him.

Offline Ace Rockola

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: KFDK Mid-air crash thread.....
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2014, 09:56:28 AM »
One of the local TV news programs played the full audio and said that all of the voices heard were those of either ATC or survivors, though how they could have known that early on is beyond me unless they already interviewed the two released from the hospital and one of them claimed the haunting transmission in question was in fact him.

I was wondering the same thing.  I have seen no reporting that lists the source of who made that transmission.  It is a recording I wish I had never heard.  Unfortunately, the Wash Post and others had links to the full recording, with no warning about what was on it.  I wanted to hear it strictly for the ATC part of it.  I did not want to hear what now haunts me.   

Offline frcabot

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: KFDK Mid-air crash thread.....
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2015, 02:20:02 AM »
Very sad to hear but a good reminder to pilots. Separation services are NOT provided to VFR/VFR or VFR/IFR traffic in Class D -- only IFR/IFR. Of course, ATC will do what they can but many airports, even towered, lack radar coverage and the controller is limited to eyeballs and radio transmissions just like pilots.

I flew out of KVNY today and had a near miss myself with a Cessna. The controller issued a frantic "Traffic Alert" while providing instructions.  At the same time, my Garmin ADS-B also issued a traffic alert (but it doesn't provide resolution, i.e. what to do, it just says, "i.e., traffic, traffic, 10 o'clock."

As I was turning left he then told me to turn immediate right and climb, climb, climb. I narrowly missed the Cessna which I only saw when it was barely passing behind and under me -- at probably a 200kts closure rate. If the controller had not been on his game, today could have ended with multiple deaths and a collision at the busiest GA airport in the country.

A harrowing experience, to be sure.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 03:30:33 AM by frcabot »

Offline frcabot

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 36
Re: KFDK Mid-air crash thread.....
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2015, 03:28:59 AM »
If you want to hear me nearly shit myself, you can listen to the KVNY-Jan-04-2015-2230Z transcript, starting at 14 minute mark to about 15:13 when I am instructed to switch frequencies and he "thank[s me] for the help" (I didn't really get that last one, pretty sure he's the one who saved all our lives).

What's hard to grasp is how quickly this all happens. I'm travelling about 130 kts in a climb from 2500, the Cessna (N96575 is descending I guess from 3000). I'm not familiar with the area, it's loud in the cockpit, some transmissions are being stepped on (as a result I ask for clarification a couple times because I couldn't tell whether the controller was instructing me to CEASE my climb or to continue my climb) -- all I heard was **** (unintelligible) climb. Although the transmissions are clear on the tape, they don't come across as clearly in the cockpit with prop noise, distance from the transmitter, etc.

14:08-18, Controller: Mooney 1RA, turn left uh like 90 degrees now, just turn left. There's traffic at the 118 freeway is a Cessna at 3000, I'm trying to get him down.
14:19-21, Me: Roger, you said turn left niner-zero degrees? [I have started a left turn already during the transmission]
14:22-27, Controller: I'll tell you what, just make a right turn and uh, 1RA, turn right, turn right, about, uh, suggest a heading of 030 [I start immediately turning right during this transmission, at about a 45 degree bank angle to 030]
14:28-30, Me: Right 030, 201RA
14:30-37, Controller: 1RA, traffic on your left and about a half a mile, at 2800 [note, I am now at same altitude], a Cessna.
14:38-39, Me: Uh, roger, looking for that traffic [if you're paying attention you can start to hear me get worried, my Garmin unit has just gone off with a traffic alert and I have yet to spot the Cessna but understand that we are converging rapidly]
14:40-44, Controller: Traffic alert, expedite your climb 1RA [all I heard was traffic alert, **** your climb 1RA]
14:44-45, Me: Did you say climb, 1RA? [At this point I don't know whether to continue climbing or cease climbing -- I'm not sure what the controller has instructed me to do and I realize getting it wrong could mean a collision]
14:45, Controller: Climb climb climb! [I pull hard back on the yoke and the VSI shoots up to 2000 FPM -- as I'm pulling up I can see the Cessna now a couple hundred feet away passing below and behind me -- barely]
14:46, Me: We have him in sight, passing behind us, no factor
14:49-51, Controller: 1RA, resume own navigation
14:51-53, Me: Resume own nav, 1RA.
14:54-55, Controller: [N96]575, are you on?
14:55-56, N96575: Affirmative, 575
14:56, Controller: 575, expedite your descent down to pattern altitude at 2000!

There are a couple additional transmissions that are blocked by the other controller (two combined tower frequencies on the recording), but ends with:
15:09-13, Controller [to me]: [Mooney 1RA, contact socal departure on] 120.4, and resume own navigation. Thanks for the help.

I think after this transmission, I thank the controller for doing a great job and wish him a happy new year. But boy, that was a nervewracking experience -- probably my closest call in the air to date.

So, let's summarize: I'm first made aware of the traffic less than 30 seconds before the controller issues a traffic alert indicating possibility of collision (or, what the FAA likes to call an "unsafe proximity"). I'm first told to turn left, which I start immediately doing, then five seconds later told to turn right. Meanwhile, besides straining to look for traffic I also have to focus on actually flying the plane. And then it's over a couple seconds later -- although it could have ended very differently had I reacted even a split-second later to the controller's instructions.

« Last Edit: January 05, 2015, 03:41:00 AM by frcabot »

Offline stevekirks

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
Re: KFDK Mid-air crash thread.....
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2015, 01:02:58 PM »
If you want to hear me nearly shit myself, you can listen to the KVNY-Jan-04-2015-2230Z transcript, starting at 14 minute mark to about 15:13 when I am instructed to switch frequencies and he "thank[s me] for the help" (I didn't really get that last one, pretty sure he's the one who saved all our lives).

I listened to this and the conflicting Cessna got dumped between tower frequencies a couple of times.  One call in to tower, given instructions and a switch to another freq, then that controller sent him back to the first one and the whole time you're on the climb in multiple targets coming in.  Tough situation to understand.