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| | |-+  KFMY 4-16-2012 poor student in cross country!, many mistakes.
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Author Topic: KFMY 4-16-2012 poor student in cross country!, many mistakes.  (Read 9867 times)
XA-CMF
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« on: April 17, 2012, 10:00:58 AM »

Ok, at least he remain calm, but too many mistakes in less than 15 mins!!! Is it possible that he could be grounded at the moment he arrives at plataform? ATC is very upset because the mistakes.

03:00 Show begins.
09:00 First Error!
10:00 Second Error!
13:30 Lands! (thanks God!)
14:00 Already in Ground, all confuse! no Airport Chart!
15:20 Completely lost! TWR already mad!!
17:01 Still Lost!! needs a GPS!! KFMY is not KORD o KJFK!!!
Finally, it arrives at the FBO! poor guy!!! I did not hear it taking off anymore.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2012, 10:05:43 AM by dave » Logged

englishpilot
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« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2012, 11:59:39 AM »

Poor fella. 
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« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2012, 12:17:17 PM »

I am sure he isn't the first student to have trouble in his cross-country.  Hopefully he can get some intensive instruction to get himself better trained.
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Robert Larson
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« Reply #3 on: April 17, 2012, 10:36:57 PM »

That was pretty brutal. Some ideas might be to ID himself as a student (if he was in fact one (let's hope)), and ask for progressive taxi. The controller could've been a little gentler too. I'm not sure his hollering at the guy helped him be any less nervous.
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mik_ny
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« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2012, 01:01:06 AM »

KFMY, Airport Diagram
N9247V, FlightSafety
Radar, Page back to Vero Beach
Edited copy ...
and the departure to return Vero Beach
« Last Edit: April 18, 2012, 01:56:06 AM by mik_ny » Logged

CMEL-IA, IGI
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« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2012, 01:46:04 PM »

Maybe was his first cross country, but I guess he could prepare him self better, it looks to be a domestic fella, so I think language was not an issue.

about TWR, I think he got mad when he was flying in the opposite direction as traffic was also a factor.

But anyhow, I hope the student takes this as a good lesson and get prepare better for the next fly!

Cheers and thank you for posting your opinions!



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StuSEL
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« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2012, 05:33:15 PM »

Woah, that's a rough controller. Yikes.

Edit: 18:30...he's still lost LOL.
« Last Edit: April 18, 2012, 05:34:46 PM by StuSEL » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2012, 09:37:34 PM »

It's easy to see both sides of this situation.  The controller's primary job is to keep planes separated, and they are constantly under pressure.  Though this didn't seem like a particularly busy tower.  Surely, his "customer service skills" could use some work.  But pilots that are this lost need to get remedial training, and fast.  

The pilot clearly needs lots more training on situational awareness, at a minimum.  And more training on communicating.  But he could have benefited from some better care and guidance.



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« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2012, 10:32:48 PM »

maybe a special Squawk code for students is necessary ?
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« Reply #9 on: April 19, 2012, 02:33:54 PM »

maybe a special Squawk code for students is necessary ?
Nah, I think the pilot made it pretty clear he was a student!  grin  Besides, he probably would have got that wrong, too.
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sluf4
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« Reply #10 on: April 19, 2012, 11:25:02 PM »

not a very helpful controller there, but then again this kind of thing could really lead to an accident.  I think some more dual instruction is in order, but maybe the guy learned a valuable lesson at least.
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jschou
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« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2012, 04:07:56 PM »

My first thought was, "I'd like to be a fly on the wall for THAT debriefing" from a first solo cross-country.

Then, a whole bunch of other thoughts came up:

- How well was the student's preflight preparation vetted by the instructor?
- By attempting to do a 45° intercept of the left downwind ( despite tower instructions ), the student demonstrates that away from KVRB, his training provided him with default behavior you'd expect at a non-tower airport, to the exclusion of ATC instruction. This raised the question of whether FlightSafety does any training to "foreign" tower-controlled airports before a student's solo cross-country phase, or not.
- Becoming "familiar with all available information for that flight" is a pretty big tent, and should be even moreso for a student. It seems like printing out an airport chart and having it readily available would be basic. This comes back to how well the student is being monitored WRT their flight preparation habits, BEFORE they're unleashed into the wild.
- By all means, the student should have said "unfamiliar" and asked for progressive taxi, but it's clear that he was still flustered from his airspace gaffe and might have screwed up execution in any event. There's also a pretty good chance that - alone, and landing on a wider runway than he's accustomed to - he rounded out/flared high and landed pretty hard, compounding the "flustration".

Whenever I've found myself a little "out of sorts" when airborne, I have never encountered a voice from ATC that failed to improve my circumstance. They want to help however they can, and pretty much always succeed at it. This controller didn't, alas.

I've always held FlightSafety up as the Gold Standard in flight instruction ( in my mind, anyway ). Seeing how instructor attention could have precluded this incident ever having occurred raises my esteem for the place I learned to fly. I prefer to think that the more interesting debriefing would see this student's instructor under the harsh lights, but I'm a bit too cynical to believe that it ever happened.
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Kaliber35
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« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2012, 04:49:04 PM »

Reminds me of my TWR encounter after returning from my cross country.  TWR kept pulling me off final due to faster traffic.  3 times I was given vectors away from the airport.  I wasnt doing anything wrong, just going slow.  At one point he asked me to do a 360 and then continue on final.  I told him I was a student pilot and was starting to feel overwhelmed.  He apologized, assured me he would get me on the ground, and then last minute tossed me on a completely different runway. lol  He did tell me on the ground that I did a great job listening and following directions. An instructor back at school was in the air and heard everything and said,"man, that controller was picking on you".  I felt like part of the airport that day.  lol

I should try to cut the audio and upload it one day.
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joeyb747
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« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2012, 12:10:42 PM »

"flustration".

I like that word...fits the situation well!
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Fred_Garvin
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« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2012, 08:47:52 AM »

I can't help but think the tower was enjoying giving the flustered guy a hard time.
I can understand why the guys at JFK are short but this was a far cry from that.

If you are really concerned about the pilots situational awareness you aren't going to help matters acting like that.  Think the pilot needs more training? no time like the present.  You can make the situation worse or make it a learning experience.

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