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Author Topic: KOSH ATC Audio of N6JR Incident  (Read 43914 times)
jdflyer
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« Reply #30 on: August 15, 2010, 01:49:58 PM »

Roush made a statement today on ESPN that he was essentially put in a position where he had to crash the plane to avoid another aircraft.
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BigWheelHawaii
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« Reply #31 on: August 15, 2010, 07:40:09 PM »

Aloha All,,,

Did anyone hear that the aircraft in conflict,
might of been an airplane cleared for takeoff in
front of 6JR Huh Listening to the tapes, it also
sounds like Jack may have had to be "reminded" to
turn downwind... That might have contributed to
"being" in a little "tight" on downwind...
Just speculation at this point... Jack has a
ton of "High-Performance" time... Something
distracted him, and it distracted him big time...
A friend of mine there, did state that he
thought that Jack did "Over-Shoot" center line
on 18R... That always makes for a lot of "fancy"
air work, to get lined back up... Thank you all,
and a big "Mahalo" for your time and effort...
Again, the question is, could the "conflict"
aircraft, be a airplane taking off Huh


Big
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jdflyer
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« Reply #32 on: August 15, 2010, 08:39:16 PM »

Roush was on a left downwind for 18R which means they would have wanted him to make his base leg right at the end of the runway to stay away from 9/27 traffic.  If Roush saw traffic that his jet was going to run over that would account for him wanting to extend his downwind and then the question on base about whether it was going to work.  My only question is why a go-around wouldn't have solved his problem?
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VampyreGTX
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« Reply #33 on: August 16, 2010, 09:24:42 AM »

Sounds like he's blaming ATC on it already. 

In an AvWeb article: "The reality of it -- on a trip arrival into Oshkosh, Wisc., I was put in conflict with the flight plan of another airplane close to the ground, and I was unable to address the conflict and keep the airplane flying. I ground-looped the airplane..." Roush told the car racing publication Motorsports."

Also, the prelim report cofirms he overshoot the centerline of the runway as well.

He's out of the hospital thankfully now, but he's lost sight in his left eye among the many other injuries that required surguries. 
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Phlux
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« Reply #34 on: August 16, 2010, 09:43:33 AM »

but he's lost sight in his left eye among the many other injuries that required surgeries. 

I was afraid of that.  He was bleeding pretty badly on that side of his face.  Looks like his days of flying himself are over.  I just hate the blame game has already started, damage control for the preliminary NTSB report?
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Charlotte Ground - "Cactus 1441, hold short of mike and give way to the RJ..."

US Airways 1441 - "We have priority here, this same thing happened last time..."

Charlotte Ground - "You have priority when I give it to you, now hold short Cactus 1441..
svoynick
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« Reply #35 on: August 21, 2010, 01:01:29 AM »

" I was put in conflict with the flight plan of another airplane close to the ground, and I was unable to address the conflict and keep the airplane flying. "
That phrase, "put into conflict..." whether consciously intentional or not, sure does seem to be pointing his finger toward ATC...

I won't presume to judge, but it seems like a statement like this paints one into a pretty narrow corner, in terms of having to explain a conflict that would come up so quickly and so close to the ground that one could not fly the aircraft out of it with a go-around, but that a "ground loop" would be the best option available.   Basically something like a runway that was clear on final, but then traffic suddenly enters the runway after it's too late for the aircraft to execute a GA?

Roush was on a left downwind for 18R which means they would have wanted him to make his base leg right at the end of the runway to stay away from 9/27 traffic.  
Agree - in fact, the controller issued "Premier, make your base turn abeam the tower", (i.e. well south of the approach end of 18) which 6JR acknowledged.  He gave the same instruction to the Lake following 6JR.

Well, all I can say is that some day I'll be interested to read the report to see if it gives any more insight, especially to the question "Is 6JR gonna be OK with this?", and the subsequent "don't think so..."  At that point in time, he's essentially put himself on record as declaring that he doesn't believe his aircraft is "OK" with what he perceives is coming up.  
« Last Edit: August 21, 2010, 01:03:04 AM by svoynick » Logged
Solntsa
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« Reply #36 on: August 25, 2010, 02:26:28 AM »



Blue and white lancair? that one?
[/quote]

I'm trying 2 transcript that exchange.

For not it is

CTL:   ….Sir. I need you to go back to the Island for me. You need to go back to the Island. The airport is closed now.
PIL:   OK.HuhHuhHuh?. Back to the Island.
CTL:   And I’ll let you know. It could be a while, it could be better to find any other place to go, I guess. The airport is closed now due to an incident.
PIL:   OK. Will just go to Fond Du Lac.
CTL:   Roger.

So in this abstract I can't catch the callsigh. Is it lancair? Can't hear it at all.
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svoynick
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« Reply #37 on: August 25, 2010, 04:25:07 AM »

So in this abstract I can't catch the callsigh. Is it lancair? Can't hear it at all.

Note that at Oshkosh they often refer to aircraft by their color and type.  In the south tower clip the controller stays with this practice just referring to 6JR as "Premier".  They'll also instruct how to respond -they may say "rock your wings" which means "stay off the radio for now".  There's an example of this on the south tower clip starting at around 0:44.

Anyway, I hear the north tower clip differently from your transcription in a number of spots.  This is how I hear it:

Quote
CTL:  Blue and White Lancair, I need you to go back to the Island for me.  I need you to go back to the Island; the airport is closed now.
PIL:  OK, Blue and White Lancair, back to the Island.
CTL:  And I'll let you know, uh.  It could be a while, it could be, (( well you'll )) just have to find a new place to go.  I guess the airport is closed now due to an incident.
PIL:  OK, we'll just go to Fond Du Lac.
CTL:  Roger

The "well you'll" in double parentheses above, I'm not completely sure of, but it's my best guess and it fits the context - can't think of what else it would be...
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alltheway
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« Reply #38 on: August 25, 2010, 09:41:11 AM »

Quote
Quote
CTL:  Blue and White Lancair, I need you to go back to the Island for me.  I need you to go back to the Island; the airport is closed now.
PIL:  OK, Blue and White Lancair, back to the Island.
CTL:  And I'll let you know, uh.  It could be a while, it could be later, just find any place to go. I just hear the airport is closed now due to an incident.
PIL:  OK, we'll just go to Fond Du Lac.
CTL:  Roger
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Solntsa
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« Reply #39 on: August 26, 2010, 02:31:12 AM »

 My listening skills need improvement =) cause I've noticed lots of small mishearings like "will vs we'll" or "it could be better vs it could be later" and Blue and White Lancair as a callsing - the most difficult thing for me.
Thank you for you help and helpful explanation!
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liveatcneter
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« Reply #40 on: August 27, 2010, 09:51:16 AM »

A go-around would have solved the whole thing. A tricycle gear airplane does not "ground loop" so he's totally off kilter even thinking that this is somehow a sanctioned procedure or something. The answer to any problem in approach is a go around or balked landing. Two different things, and the difference not known to this guy which is why the airplane STALLED, rolled, and CRASHED. Not a good outcome, but the average ESPN viewer doesn't know any better.  He's posturing but the NTSB isn't stupid, the report will show pilot error. Remember, the PIC is the final authority in the operation of the airplane and you can't blame ATC for putting you in a bad position although it may happen from time to time.
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Fred_Garvin
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« Reply #41 on: August 28, 2010, 02:59:18 PM »

Agree
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donaldlaw
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« Reply #42 on: August 29, 2010, 12:46:55 PM »

Just been sent these pics that you may find interesting......... those planes on the taxiway sure got a fright on the next set of pics
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donaldlaw
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« Reply #43 on: August 29, 2010, 12:49:55 PM »

more pics
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donaldlaw
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« Reply #44 on: August 29, 2010, 12:51:52 PM »

Ditto
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