Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
July 30, 2014, 01:15:39 PM
Home Help Login Register      
News: NEW Follow LiveATC updates on Twitter and Facebook


+  LiveATC Discussion Forums
|-+  Air Traffic Monitoring
| |-+  Aviation Audio Clips (Moderators: dave, RonR)
| | |-+  KOSH ATC Audio of N6JR Incident
« previous next »
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] Go Down Print
Author Topic: KOSH ATC Audio of N6JR Incident  (Read 41765 times)
donaldlaw
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 4


« Reply #45 on: August 29, 2010, 12:53:15 PM »

ditto again
Logged
alltheway
Guest
« Reply #46 on: August 29, 2010, 01:07:54 PM »

Here is a link of some pics of the crash posted on the TMZ website

http://photos.tmz.com/galleries/jack_roushs_plane_crashed_pictures#tab=most_recent

Wow, that first picture has a real rightwing low position... indicates a stall and the airplane did a near 360 on the ground. . .

 shocked Well not a 360 here but at least a 175 degree turn on the ground !
« Last Edit: August 29, 2010, 01:32:25 PM by alltheway » Logged
joeyb747
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1577


Nothing Like A 747!


« Reply #47 on: August 29, 2010, 09:19:03 PM »

Great Pics donaldlaw! Tells the story just by looking at the pics! She is defiantly facing back the way she came from, that's for sure! So given that, I have to agree with alltheway on the 180 turn-around here, and retract what I said in my earlier post... wink
Logged

Aircraft Mechanic
Phlux
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 39



« Reply #48 on: August 30, 2010, 10:45:45 AM »

I bet N27970 got a nice coronary out of that sight.
Logged

Charlotte Ground - "Cactus 1441, hold short of mike and give way to the RJ..."

US Airways 1441 - "We have priority here, this same thing happened last time..."

Charlotte Ground - "You have priority when I give it to you, now hold short Cactus 1441..
joeyb747
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1577


Nothing Like A 747!


« Reply #49 on: August 31, 2010, 07:04:11 PM »

I bet N27970 got a nice coronary out of that sight.

Guy probably needed a new pair of shorts after that!  shocked
Logged

Aircraft Mechanic
svoynick
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 97


« Reply #50 on: September 01, 2010, 03:28:05 PM »

So I'm not claiming I know the answers, but the question for me is, how do you go from being 50 feet off the deck with wings level, to a right-wingtip-first crash in the grass?   How does ATC "put you in" a situation that results in that sequence?  What prevented the pilot from flying the airplane to a landing?

The "touchdown" sequence looks pretty clear, from a physics point of view.  At the point where the right wingtip strikes first, there's an aft force put on the plane at that location, at a moment arm far out to the right, which imparts a clockwise (from above) rotational inertia to the plane.  After the whole thing pancake's down, it's no longer about aerodynamics and all about momentum and friction.  It slides the rest of the way forward, and rotates clockwise, as far as it does until all the momentums (both linear and rotational) are eaten up by friction with the ground.

And yeah, if I'd been in N27970, it would need a new upholstery job...
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 03:33:16 PM by svoynick » Logged
svoynick
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 97


« Reply #51 on: June 25, 2012, 03:46:23 PM »

OK, I know this is a 2-year "bump" to the thread, but it looks like the NTSB report is out on this one.  I have only read news summaries and I don't want to comment until I can read the original report, but I can't seem to get on the ntsb site to get it.   Is anyone else able to access the report on the ntsb.gov site?
Logged
flyflyfly
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 106



« Reply #52 on: June 25, 2012, 05:55:26 PM »

NTSB report (released 06/12/2012):
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/brief.aspx?ev_id=20100728X70427

Quote
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
The pilot's decision not to advance the engines to takeoff power during the go-around, as stipulated by the airplane flight manual, which resulted in an aerodynamic stall at a low altitude.

More here: http://kathrynaviationnews.com/?p=62663 (including a link to media coverage with a host who nods throughout the interview - but finally summarizes "so he loses just enough speed to stall one of the engines, right?". No! They'll never learn what stalling an aircraft means... rolleyes
Logged
svoynick
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 97


« Reply #53 on: June 29, 2012, 07:45:50 PM »


More here: http://kathrynaviationnews.com/?p=62663 (including a link to media coverage with a host who nods throughout the interview - but finally summarizes "so he loses just enough speed to stall one of the engines, right?". No! They'll never learn what stalling an aircraft means... rolleyes
Thanks.  I have been having a weird problem getting to the ntsb.gov site for several days (I tried different browsers, different computers, and as a test, I was able to get to the really fun site at irs.gov just fine, so I don't know what the problem was...) but I finally got a chance to read the report, both the summary and the full narrative.

I note that on the "Kathryn's Blog" site of your link, they end the pilot's quote at "I accept the findings."  Makes it sound all tidied up.  However, in the story at sportingnews.com, (linked in that blog post), the next thing out of his mouth after "I accept the findings..." is
Quote
There are some omissions. I wish they had been more complete in the description of the things that were happening in the congested airspace that I was presented there in Oshkosh. They didn’t do that, so that’s a moot point.
 (emphasis mine)

It sounds like he's still pitching the story that ATC "put him" in a situation, and this was the tough-as-nails, go-down-with-the-ship response that he was forced to accept.  But as he's used to talking to the press, he manages to sell himself as the good guy falling on his sword.  

Further down :
Quote
I can’t emphasize this too much—what a relief it was that I was able to negotiate a contact with the ground that kept me free of other airplanes and free of anybody that could have been injured outside of the airplane,” Roush said.
This is a reprise of his previous statement "I was put in conflict with the flight plan of another airplane.... I ground-looped the airplane."  

I don't mean this to sound snippy, but it sounds like he should have been negotiating with his power levers, and not the ground.

I guess the one quote of his that does seem to fit the situation in a factually accurate way, but it helps to take it out of its original context:

"I was unable to address the conflict and keep the airplane flying."
Logged
sykocus
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 349



« Reply #54 on: June 29, 2012, 11:56:44 PM »

I guess the one quote of his that does seem to fit the situation in a factually accurate way, but it helps to take it out of its original context:

"I was unable to address the conflict and keep the airplane flying."

I don't think I had heard that quote before but to me it's very telling. The vast majority of responsibility to "address the conflict" belonged to ATC, and it sounds as they were able to do that even though it was very close:

"Several witnesses recalled seeing the yellow Piper Cub offset from runway 18R when the accident occurred. One witness reported that the Piper Cub performed a short-field takeoff and offset after liftoff. The same witness reported that the Piper Cub was between runways 18R and 18L as the Premier jet was turning base to final."

It sounds very much like the pilot got caught up in watching the departure ("addressing the conflict"?) and fell behind flying the aircraft. I don't know what it's like to fly a Premier jet and I'm not saying I could do better in the busy airspace of Oshkosh, but the fact is he did overshoot the runway on his base turn which certainly didn't help his attempt to execute a go around.

Here's a PDF of the full narrative I copied from the NTSB site
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/152429/N6JR%20narrative.pdf
« Last Edit: June 30, 2012, 01:44:54 AM by sykocus » Logged

Yesterday I couldn't spell air traffic controller. Today I R one.
Pages: 1 2 3 [4] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.19 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!