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Author Topic: KSEA final approach monitor break-in  (Read 18501 times)

Offline gmwnet

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KSEA final approach monitor break-in
« on: November 06, 2007, 10:01:15 PM »
Listening to KSEA Final feed this morning I heard a first for me -- a different controller voice said "this is final approach monitor cancel approach clearance fly runway heading maintain 3000"

Wow, didn't know KSEA had a final approach monitor -- there is only one ILS at a time here until the third runway comes online.  Wonder if they are practicing or what happened.

Anyways, thought that was interesting!  Some dead air deleted for brevity.
 
« Last Edit: November 06, 2007, 10:05:55 PM by gmwnet »



Offline moto400ex

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Re: KSEA final approach monitor break-in
« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2007, 11:09:19 PM »
Deffinetly sounds like hes saying "this is mock final monitor"  I looked at some approach plates and none stated any simultaneous ILS approaches.  The controller didnt exactly state break out instructions, I would expect a heading other than runway heading and probably expect a climb or if nearing NTZ a direction to return to the localizer course.  I did see an airport diagram and it look like a new runway is being built.  Sounds like its just practice but it will be nice to listen to in the future when they have simultaneous parrallel ILS approaches in use. 

Offline mk

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Re: KSEA final approach monitor break-in
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2007, 01:31:35 PM »
wierd.  the last transmission approach gave Horizon was a caution wake turbulance behind a B777. he never switched him to the tower, unless it was cut out when the clip was edited.  the monitor is also responsible for separation on final after the final app controller switches a/c to the final.  so maybe it was a "mock" monitor pulling Horizon out before a loss of wake turb resulted.  def no simuls going on there though

Offline gmwnet

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Re: KSEA final approach monitor break-in
« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2007, 09:23:02 PM »
I think figured this out -- It was because of a missed approach from Boeing Field (KBFI) ILS 13R.

I googled a bit and indeed SEA does have a final approach monitor.  In seriously degraded weather the missed approach protected airspace for KBFI 13R intrudes into the airspace of the ILS approach for KSEA 16L/C.  BFI is right smack under the SEA ILS final approach fix (indeed the old SEA NDB/LOM used to be located at BFI) with Seattle ILS traffic at about 1,900 on the glideslope just over Boeing Field. 

It was a typically very low visibility Fall fog morning and someone must have missed at BFI (that missed approach is up to 2,000 as the initial). So having the final approach monitor say fly runway heading and maintain 3000 makes sense for a SEA arrival.

Offline cessna157

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Re: KSEA final approach monitor break-in
« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2007, 11:35:54 PM »
Sounds like a resonable explanation, but still doesn't answer the mock question.  It sure seems like he says mock final monitor.  Or does he start to say monitor and stumbles and corrects himself to say final monitor?

Offline gmwnet

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Re: KSEA final approach monitor break-in
« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2007, 11:42:48 PM »
I think he stumbles over his words now -- probably because he doesn't have to do it very much!  Perhaps he started out  "this is mo...(er) final approach monitor..."

Offline moto400ex

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Re: KSEA final approach monitor break-in
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2007, 12:56:56 AM »
Ive listened to it several times now and it doesnt seem like he stumbled over his words... deffinetly sounds like "mock"

Offline PHL Approach

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Re: KSEA final approach monitor break-in
« Reply #7 on: November 08, 2007, 01:39:53 AM »
Looks like S46 does have two Monitors in operation. A whole wall in the control room dedicated just for monitors. Two in there now and possiblity to add more *if they aren't already operational* in the future.

3-14. CONCURRENT ILS PROCEDURES

a. The following procedures shall be used when concurrent ILS approaches are
being conducted to BFI Runway 13R and to SEA Runways 16R/L and BFI ATCT
cannot provide visual separation between the two approaches.

b. Limitations for concurrent ILS approach procedures are:
1. STARS, radar and all involved positions must be fully operational.
2. All affected aircraft must display a full data block with operable and verified
Mode C altitude.
3. Two-way radio communication must be established and maintained
between TRACON/ATCT and all affected aircraft.

c. TRACON shall:
1. Ensure that the Mode C altitude of all aircraft involved is verified or
coordinated with the ARM position and other TRACON sectors involved.
2. Ensure that BFI traffic is cleared for the ILS approach and established on the
localizer at or prior to the approach gate at 2,200’.
3. Ensure that SEA traffic is cleared for the ILS approach and established on
the localizer to cross ANVIL/KARFO at or above 3,200’. When lateral separation will
not be maintained between SEA and BFI traffic, the SEA traffic shall be assigned an
altitude at least 1,000’ above the BFI traffic, and approach clearance for the SEA traffic
shall be withheld until the BFI traffic descends through 1,800’

------------------------

4-6. ARRIVAL RADAR MONITOR - ARM

a. Advise TRACON, BFI Tower and SEA ATCT Local Control when opening and
closing. Make the appropriate changes to the STARS SSA to reflect current sector
configuration.
b. Coordinate first and last aircraft to be monitored.
c. Monitor the BFI ATCT Local Control frequency and maintain override capability
of the F frequency.
d. Monitor the Mode C of the aircraft involved and ensure that required separation
is maintained between BFI arrivals and SEA arrivals which are established on the final
approach course between ANVIL and SODOE or KARFO and DGLAS.
e. When a BFI Rwy 13R missed approach is detected, either by Mode C, radio
report or any other source and required separation cannot be ensured with an aircraft
on the SEA Rwy 16 final, issue immediate alternate instructions to the aircraft on the
SEA final.

PHRASEOLOGY -
(aircraft callsign) CLIMB IMMEDIATELY, MAINTAIN (altitude), FLY (heading)
f. Coordinate with affected sectors and facilities as necessary.
g. Comply with all applicable procedures in Chapter 3.
h. Use the following checklist when opening and closing:

ARRIVAL RADAR MONITOR
OPENING and CLOSING CHECK LIST
1. RADAR(s) OK
2. STARS OK
3. Test BFI Monitor
4. Test Final Override
5. Advise all concerned of opening/closing

Offline cessna157

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Re: KSEA final approach monitor break-in
« Reply #8 on: November 08, 2007, 08:04:29 AM »
That's an awesome SOP/checklist.  I wish more of that kind of thing was available to be viewed.  I could spend hours learning about the TRACONs and ARTCCs that I fly through.

xprtmarksman

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Re: KSEA final approach monitor break-in
« Reply #9 on: November 14, 2007, 09:57:39 PM »
The final approach monitor you're talking about is most likely the watch supervisor.  He saw something he didn't like and corrected it.  Being a ATC trainee I know what this sounds like. 

Offline mk

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Re: KSEA final approach monitor break-in
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2007, 06:02:16 PM »
no they're right...it's a finals monitor.   gmwnet did some sweet research! 

i don't think supervisors overriding controllers happens anymore...not long ago a sup suggested a turn for an airplane to a controller when the controller was getting overloaded and now he doesn't work there...got a nice job in a level 7 tower.   and besides, most (90% or more) supervisors are only current on 1/4 of the scopes they "supervise".