Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
October 24, 2014, 11:36:51 PM
Home Help Login Register      
News: LiveATC.net Flyers Released!  Please click here to download & print a copy and be sure to post at an airport near you!


+  LiveATC Discussion Forums
|-+  Air Traffic Monitoring
| |-+  Aviation Audio Clips (Moderators: dave, RonR)
| | |-+  KSFO - "just say cleared to land and you'll probably do fine"
« previous next »
Pages: [1] Go Down Print
Author Topic: KSFO - "just say cleared to land and you'll probably do fine"  (Read 7095 times)
ufpncc1966
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3


« on: September 26, 2008, 05:28:11 PM »

I don't have time to trim/post this right now, apologies.  It's in the KSFO tower feed, about 13:40 into the 1930 zulu file.

I thought it was rather amusing.  Pilot forgot his flight number maybe?
Logged
cessna157
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 708



WWW
« Reply #1 on: September 26, 2008, 05:53:04 PM »

Heh heh heh, that controller does pretty well without getting all tongue tied.  This guy did this, this guy did that, another guy is doing this on a completely different runway.  That's a tough clearance to wade through to pick out the landing clearance.
Logged

CRJ7/CRJ9 F/O, Travel Agent
goowe
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 59



WWW
« Reply #2 on: September 26, 2008, 07:01:25 PM »

Heh heh heh, that controller does pretty well without getting all tongue tied.  This guy did this, this guy did that, another guy is doing this on a completely different runway.  That's a tough clearance to wade through to pick out the landing clearance.

Amen! Sounds like the controller is doing a great job! I need to listen to SFO tower more... Thanks for finding this! Smiley
Logged

Alton (Joe) Anderson - AltonAnderson.com
Facebook me!
Adrian8
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 200



« Reply #3 on: September 26, 2008, 07:50:18 PM »

Attached.
Logged
ufpncc1966
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 3


« Reply #4 on: September 26, 2008, 08:39:51 PM »


[/quote]

I need to listen to SFO tower more...
[/quote]

KSFO has a pretty interesting standard procedure - from what I can tell traffic usually lands on the 28s, keeps their speed up through the 1s, and traffic takes off on the 1s before the next group of arrivals.  Add to that the fact that the heavies have to cross the 1s to use the 28s for takeoff, and it makes for some interesting listening.
Logged
Galaxy001
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 42


« Reply #5 on: September 27, 2008, 12:56:35 AM »

lol, this is a good one.  KSFO has a lot of interesting tower-aircraft interactions, really worth listening to (it's my favorite feed). 
Logged
Galaxy001
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 42


« Reply #6 on: September 27, 2008, 01:02:45 AM »



KSFO has a pretty interesting standard procedure - from what I can tell traffic usually lands on the 28s, keeps their speed up through the 1s, and traffic takes off on the 1s before the next group of arrivals.  Add to that the fact that the heavies have to cross the 1s to use the 28s for takeoff, and it makes for some interesting listening.

It really depends I think on what tracon is doing that day or how the wind is turning out.  If they are using the Shoreline One departure for most takeoffs, 28L and R are used for landing and departing while the ones are not used.  But they usually use a variety of different departures (Eugan Five, San Fransisco Eight, Quiet Two, etc.), in which runways 1L and R are used.  In fact, they are very strict about using the ones, many general aviation aircraft just north of 28R request an intersection takeoff at 28R, but the tower denies it and has them taxi all the way around the runways, circle around the terminal building, and taxi to either 1L or R (usually via C --> Z --> B1 --> B or A).  But the ones are very rarely used for landing as they are near high terrain and are much shorter than the 28s.
Logged
w0x0f
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 322



« Reply #7 on: September 27, 2008, 11:53:34 AM »

The changes to the position and hold rule have made it mandatory for the local controller to make complex transmissions such as this.  One could only guess, that telling an aircraft on final to one runway about traffic that is holding in position on an intersecting runway, it is intended to raise the pilot's situational awareness. 

Let me be clear that I am all for situational awareness.  However, I believe that a pilot who exercises good situational awareness would recognize a conflict if the local controller cleared the departure for takeoff on the intersecting runway in conflict with the arrival regardless of the "heads up" transmission requirement.

Forgive me, because I am about to take another approach to this.  So maybe the extra traffic information isn't for the pilot to maintain situational awareness but is meant as a reminder to the controller.  If that is the case, then I believe that the additional workload of extra phraseology is a misapplication of problem solving to eliminate errors.   

Operational error investigation teams are required to find solutions so that errors are not repeated.  I've seen some excellent improvements and some that were implemented for the sake of showing that action had been taken.  This requirement for additional phraseology came from a heightened level of scrutiny on runway incursions and surface errors on a national level.  The scrutiny is well placed because, more than likely, the next major aircraft catastrophe will be on or very close to a runway. 

Controllers are trained to "keep the flick."  This rule does what I was trained to do in my head 25 years ago.  Note to self "Don't roll this guy on 1 Right, traffic landing on 28 Right."   So now we're thinking out loud.  Sheesh!   

The changes to position and hold rules, and the associated additional phraseology, have only increased the workload for already busy local controllers.  It's too bad the FAA threw all of their subject matter experts (NATCA Safety Liaisons)  out of Washington DC prior to imposing their work rules on Labor Day 2006.  The desk jockeys could have used some real world input on this mess.

w0x0f               
Logged
Adrian8
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 200



« Reply #8 on: September 28, 2008, 03:19:49 PM »

Good post.
Logged
aviator_06
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 255



WWW
« Reply #9 on: September 29, 2008, 08:30:05 PM »

That........that was.................That was a good clip. lol
Logged

cessna157
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 708



WWW
« Reply #10 on: September 29, 2008, 08:40:34 PM »

That........that was.................That was a good clip. lol


Just say it was a good clip and you'll do fine.
Logged

CRJ7/CRJ9 F/O, Travel Agent
nar1224
Guest
« Reply #11 on: September 29, 2008, 09:49:32 PM »

That........that was.................That was a good clip. lol


Just say it was a good clip and you'll do fine.

Good one!
Logged
goowe
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 59



WWW
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2008, 09:52:26 PM »

Hahaha, I started laughing out loud and my roommate gave me a goofy look  rolleyes
Logged

Alton (Joe) Anderson - AltonAnderson.com
Facebook me!
Pages: [1] Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!