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Author Topic: Lost Pilot  (Read 14568 times)
abaragones
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« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2008, 01:18:31 PM »

I flew one of my student XC there, great controllers! very helpful and acomodating, since  I was using "student" in my callsign, he joked and graded my downwind, base, final and landing... and yes I passed  grin. Since then I haven't been there but it is in my plans....
-Abraham
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bcrosby
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« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2008, 04:04:44 PM »

Hmm..

I guess that airport (Oxford) is unable to do DF Steers?

For those unfamiliar with DF Steers:

This is a way for the tower to steer you into the right direction to get back to the airport in case you are lost. You ask for a DF steer and the tower will come back with instructions with what you need to do. Make sure your gyros are synced (ie, the heading indicator matches with your compass) and (in this particular case, as instructed by the tower controller) say your call sign three times with a 1 second pause in between... keeping the mike keyed the entire time. This allows the controller to get a "fix" on your radio/position. He will then come back with a heading to turn. You can cancel the DF steer once you have the field in sight.

This "option" is slowly being phased out in Canada. (especially in radar controlled environments)
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Jason
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« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2008, 04:55:31 PM »

Hmm..

I guess that airport (Oxford) is unable to do DF Steers?

For those unfamiliar with DF Steers:

This is a way for the tower to steer you into the right direction to get back to the airport in case you are lost. You ask for a DF steer and the tower will come back with instructions with what you need to do. Make sure your gyros are synced (ie, the heading indicator matches with your compass) and (in this particular case, as instructed by the tower controller) say your call sign three times with a 1 second pause in between... keeping the mike keyed the entire time. This allows the controller to get a "fix" on your radio/position. He will then come back with a heading to turn. You can cancel the DF steer once you have the field in sight.

This "option" is slowly being phased out in Canada. (especially in radar controlled environments)

DF steers haven't been around here in decades.
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bcrosby
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« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2008, 04:57:39 PM »

Yeah, they are in the process of getting rid of them here as well.. but.. it was part of my PPL training back in 2004. I had to request a simulated DF steer !

fun times.
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Sasquach
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« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2008, 12:43:50 PM »

I understand that the pilot should know how to squawk and ident but my question is why did it take so long for the tower to be able to see the aircraft?  First he was northwest of the airport on left downwind so he's going south, then he was west of the airport going south, then he flew east over the airport towards the beacon.  Why couldn't they see him?
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moto400ex
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« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2008, 04:34:49 PM »

I understand that the pilot should know how to squawk and ident but my question is why did it take so long for the tower to be able to see the aircraft?  First he was northwest of the airport on left downwind so he's going south, then he was west of the airport going south, then he flew east over the airport towards the beacon.  Why couldn't they see him?

He wasnt at oxford when first called in.  He was at another airport that he thought was oxford.
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anxietyattack
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« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2008, 03:09:26 PM »

this incident would have been much easier for everyone if the tower had a dbrite  or stars.
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podo
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« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2008, 01:19:10 AM »

I bought my airplane from a 75 year old retired sprayer pilot who owned his own business and had 5 Stearmans operating at one time.
He was an expert ag pilot who probably hadn't used a transponder, talked to ATC, or flown above 500 feet agl in years. Imagine, an 8000 hour commercial pilot with grave mike fright.
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mikec2006
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« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2008, 10:39:43 AM »

this incident would have been much easier for everyone if the tower had a dbrite  or stars.

STARs only help flow control into busy airspace, and you must be instrument CURRENT to really use a STAR appropriately... and knowing how to set or change a squawk code is a rudimentary instrument skill - some how i just don't think he's even close to instrument training
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mikec2006
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« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2008, 10:40:47 AM »

Hmm..

I guess that airport (Oxford) is unable to do DF Steers?

For those unfamiliar with DF Steers:

This is a way for the tower to steer you into the right direction to get back to the airport in case you are lost. You ask for a DF steer and the tower will come back with instructions with what you need to do. Make sure your gyros are synced (ie, the heading indicator matches with your compass) and (in this particular case, as instructed by the tower controller) say your call sign three times with a 1 second pause in between... keeping the mike keyed the entire time. This allows the controller to get a "fix" on your radio/position. He will then come back with a heading to turn. You can cancel the DF steer once you have the field in sight.

This "option" is slowly being phased out in Canada. (especially in radar controlled environments)

DF steers haven't been around here in decades.

DF Steer only works when the controller knows where the (lost) aircraft is... and hopefully has his transponder turned from the position marked OFF to the ON position....

A pilot can still request DF Steer... or Vectors (same thing) if lost too...
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 10:42:54 AM by mikec2006 » Logged
KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #25 on: August 19, 2008, 10:47:52 AM »

this incident would have been much easier for everyone if the tower had a dbrite  or stars.

STARs only help flow control into busy airspace, and you must be instrument CURRENT to really use a STAR appropriately... and knowing how to set or change a squawk code is a rudimentary instrument skill - some how i just don't think he's even close to instrument training

I am pretty sure STARs in this case is the name/acronym of a type of ATC console, not the arrival procedure.
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
mikec2006
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« Reply #26 on: August 19, 2008, 10:58:09 AM »

but my 30 second google search on STAR radar consoles didn't turn anything up...
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Hollis
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« Reply #27 on: August 19, 2008, 09:57:05 PM »

As an old D/F operator, it goes something like this:
Pilot requests a 'steer'.
You tell him to transmit continously for 10 or more seconds.
You rotate the antenna until you reach a null point, i.e., no sound.
Verify if a TO or FROM heading between him and your location.
Advise that his bearing is TO or FROM you accordingly.

Not to boast, but I had one occasion where an aircraft was out over the North Atlantic and due to IMC became totally lost. I gave him a steer to my station but wasn't much help since he wasn't headed there and the distance between us was unknown and he couldn't pick up any other stations for a fix. A triangulation was needed for that. Out of nowhere, I came up with the idea to try something. I had him turn TO my location, then turn 90 degrees, fly 5 minutes at a constant airspeed,, do a 180, fly another 5 minutes at the same exact airspeed. Meanwhile, I was taking bearings from his transmissions at precise times as I requested. As a result, by simple triangulation, I was able to tell him almost exactly where he was.
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anxietyattack
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« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2008, 06:43:55 PM »

peter is correct,
stars-standard terminal automation replacement system
it replaced our d-brite in the tower
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aviator_06
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« Reply #29 on: August 24, 2008, 04:40:21 PM »

Wow, the pilot didn't know how to put in a squawk code. I think the CFI should have a little talk with too.
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