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Author Topic: Lost Pilot  (Read 22907 times)
Mrbun
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« on: July 11, 2008, 09:16:46 AM »

Pilot trying to find Waterbury-Oxford (CT) airport. Edited out silent parts to reduce clip size and time.

All's well that ends well.


* KOXC-Jul-10-2008-1900Z Edit.mp3 (4244.65 KB - downloaded 4937 times.)
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2008, 09:49:03 AM »

Hmmm... The pilot doesn't know how to change his squawk code?   

"When you get a chance, give the tower a call.... we just want to ask you a few questions."

I could think of one:   Could we see your logbook?  We just want to find out who the CFI was who signed you off.

Good clip.  Thanks for posting.
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Regards, Peter
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aevins
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« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2008, 02:14:41 PM »

To quote another member, "they'll give a pilots license to anyone these days"
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Junior P
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« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2008, 03:58:52 PM »

wow..... im no pilot or anything (will be going to flight school soon) but i dont think that guy should be flying alone!!
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Biff
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« Reply #4 on: July 12, 2008, 01:54:05 PM »

That boggles my mind.  Not that he got lost - that happens to almost everyone eventually - but that he doesn't know how to put in a squawk code.  I'm going to hope for the lesser of two evils: that he's a student pilot with a really bad instructor, rather than a licensed pilot who doesn't know how to perform the simplest of tasks.



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keith
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« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2008, 10:43:56 AM »

Very interesting to hear what methods the tower used to try to verify his position. I wonder if it would've been worth asking if he was familiar with NDB's, because there is one just north of the field.

Since he wasn't able to set this transponder, perhaps he was bluffing about the ident, too.

Unfortunately, there's a block that occurs where the pilot says he doesn't see the beacon/tower, so the controller starts painting more of a picture...during which time the pilot transmits again that he has it in sight (and presumably starts heading towards it).

Hint for pilots, if you release the PTT key and the controller is in mid-sentence, it's likely that he didn't hear your last transmission.

My fingers are crossed that this is a student pilot who didn't know how to operate the transponder. If it's a licensed pilot, then he slipped through the net during training. Even if you don't regularly get flight following, there is still training associated with the emergency squawk code during PPL training, as well as basic operation of most equipment in the airplane.

I give the tower a lot of credit for staying calm, he did a good job.
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Jason
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« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2008, 12:27:32 PM »

Very interesting to hear what methods the tower used to try to verify his position. I wonder if it would've been worth asking if he was familiar with NDB's, because there is one just north of the field.

The TBY NDB has been OTS (essentially decommissioned, but not officially) for months now.  The NOTAM has been broadcast on every OXC ATIS broadcast for a while, but that would have been a good idea if it was operational for sure.

It's scary to think I work in a building adjacent to the runway at Oxford with a pilot like this flying around.  The tower controllers there are top notch -- always looking out for everyone.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2008, 12:31:50 PM by Jason » Logged
KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #7 on: July 15, 2008, 01:56:44 PM »

The tower controllers there are top notch -- always looking out for everyone.

If this controller's handling of this incident is any indication of the talent at OXC, I would agree that there are some good controllers there. 

Notable to me was how the controller held another pilot on the ground while he sorted out the problem, as if the controller realized that his attention was focused on the lost pilot and that adding a takeoff into the mix might tip the scales away from a safe environment.

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Regards, Peter
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NoMad
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« Reply #8 on: July 15, 2008, 06:17:12 PM »

Unbelievable.  There are people that dumb flying way too close to me.
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dpgtime
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« Reply #9 on: July 15, 2008, 09:33:28 PM »

By the way what is a squawk? and Ident? I'm sure whatever they are their not important. I assume the 5255 code the ATC was asking of the guy was to put into the altitude box thing or in Pilot talk the coltsmen double pane window. Guess after i do my checkride for my PPL next Tuesday (God willing I pass, which i am all too confident I will) Ill be talking to you all as the nations newest Pilot (then on to ILF approaches ie: instrument landings! for the lay person)  And who knows maybe some of you can fly with me one day! wink

Darren
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #10 on: July 15, 2008, 10:20:38 PM »

By the way what is a squawk? and Ident? I'm sure whatever they are their not important.

Sarcasm doesn't always work well in this medium.  Are you serious or just joking around?
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Regards, Peter
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moto400ex
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« Reply #11 on: July 15, 2008, 10:42:49 PM »

By the way what is a squawk? and Ident? I'm sure whatever they are their not important.

Sarcasm doesn't always work well in this medium.  Are you serious or just joking around?

I think its obvious hes joking.  If he is taking is Private checkride checkride soon, I am assuming( unless hes the one in the clip)  knows what a squawk code and an ident are. 
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #12 on: July 15, 2008, 10:51:57 PM »

I think its obvious hes joking. 

Really?  I have seen several serious questions here that on the surface might have been mistaken as a joke.   With a post count of 3, that poster has no history to safely conclude anything at this point.
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Regards, Peter
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NoMad
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« Reply #13 on: July 16, 2008, 10:08:40 AM »

It is hard to tell if he is kidding.
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davolijj
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« Reply #14 on: July 16, 2008, 10:35:57 PM »

...Guess after i do my checkride for my PPL next Tuesday (God willing I pass, which i am all too confident I will) Ill be talking to you all as the nations newest Pilot (then on to ILF approaches ie: instrument landings! for the lay person)  And who knows maybe some of you can fly with me one day! wink

Darren

I'm not exactly a lay person but I'd love to know more about these ILF approaches.  Are they a new cutting edge ground-based nav or some sort of WAAS adaptation?  I try to keep up with the new stuff but I haven't seen anything on this yet....please do tell.
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JD
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« Reply #15 on: July 17, 2008, 01:18:31 PM »

I flew one of my student XC there, great controllers! very helpful and acomodating, since  I was using "student" in my callsign, he joked and graded my downwind, base, final and landing... and yes I passed  grin. Since then I haven't been there but it is in my plans....
-Abraham
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bcrosby
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« Reply #16 on: July 17, 2008, 04:04:44 PM »

Hmm..

I guess that airport (Oxford) is unable to do DF Steers?

For those unfamiliar with DF Steers:

This is a way for the tower to steer you into the right direction to get back to the airport in case you are lost. You ask for a DF steer and the tower will come back with instructions with what you need to do. Make sure your gyros are synced (ie, the heading indicator matches with your compass) and (in this particular case, as instructed by the tower controller) say your call sign three times with a 1 second pause in between... keeping the mike keyed the entire time. This allows the controller to get a "fix" on your radio/position. He will then come back with a heading to turn. You can cancel the DF steer once you have the field in sight.

This "option" is slowly being phased out in Canada. (especially in radar controlled environments)
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Jason
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« Reply #17 on: July 17, 2008, 04:55:31 PM »

Hmm..

I guess that airport (Oxford) is unable to do DF Steers?

For those unfamiliar with DF Steers:

This is a way for the tower to steer you into the right direction to get back to the airport in case you are lost. You ask for a DF steer and the tower will come back with instructions with what you need to do. Make sure your gyros are synced (ie, the heading indicator matches with your compass) and (in this particular case, as instructed by the tower controller) say your call sign three times with a 1 second pause in between... keeping the mike keyed the entire time. This allows the controller to get a "fix" on your radio/position. He will then come back with a heading to turn. You can cancel the DF steer once you have the field in sight.

This "option" is slowly being phased out in Canada. (especially in radar controlled environments)

DF steers haven't been around here in decades.
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bcrosby
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« Reply #18 on: July 17, 2008, 04:57:39 PM »

Yeah, they are in the process of getting rid of them here as well.. but.. it was part of my PPL training back in 2004. I had to request a simulated DF steer !

fun times.
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Sasquach
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« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2008, 12:43:50 PM »

I understand that the pilot should know how to squawk and ident but my question is why did it take so long for the tower to be able to see the aircraft?  First he was northwest of the airport on left downwind so he's going south, then he was west of the airport going south, then he flew east over the airport towards the beacon.  Why couldn't they see him?
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moto400ex
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« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2008, 04:34:49 PM »

I understand that the pilot should know how to squawk and ident but my question is why did it take so long for the tower to be able to see the aircraft?  First he was northwest of the airport on left downwind so he's going south, then he was west of the airport going south, then he flew east over the airport towards the beacon.  Why couldn't they see him?

He wasnt at oxford when first called in.  He was at another airport that he thought was oxford.
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anxietyattack
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« Reply #21 on: July 28, 2008, 03:09:26 PM »

this incident would have been much easier for everyone if the tower had a dbrite  or stars.
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podo
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« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2008, 01:19:10 AM »

I bought my airplane from a 75 year old retired sprayer pilot who owned his own business and had 5 Stearmans operating at one time.
He was an expert ag pilot who probably hadn't used a transponder, talked to ATC, or flown above 500 feet agl in years. Imagine, an 8000 hour commercial pilot with grave mike fright.
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mikec2006
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« Reply #23 on: August 19, 2008, 10:39:43 AM »

this incident would have been much easier for everyone if the tower had a dbrite  or stars.

STARs only help flow control into busy airspace, and you must be instrument CURRENT to really use a STAR appropriately... and knowing how to set or change a squawk code is a rudimentary instrument skill - some how i just don't think he's even close to instrument training
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mikec2006
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« Reply #24 on: August 19, 2008, 10:40:47 AM »

Hmm..

I guess that airport (Oxford) is unable to do DF Steers?

For those unfamiliar with DF Steers:

This is a way for the tower to steer you into the right direction to get back to the airport in case you are lost. You ask for a DF steer and the tower will come back with instructions with what you need to do. Make sure your gyros are synced (ie, the heading indicator matches with your compass) and (in this particular case, as instructed by the tower controller) say your call sign three times with a 1 second pause in between... keeping the mike keyed the entire time. This allows the controller to get a "fix" on your radio/position. He will then come back with a heading to turn. You can cancel the DF steer once you have the field in sight.

This "option" is slowly being phased out in Canada. (especially in radar controlled environments)

DF steers haven't been around here in decades.

DF Steer only works when the controller knows where the (lost) aircraft is... and hopefully has his transponder turned from the position marked OFF to the ON position....

A pilot can still request DF Steer... or Vectors (same thing) if lost too...
« Last Edit: August 19, 2008, 10:42:54 AM by mikec2006 » Logged
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