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Author Topic: No Gyro and ILS approach with ATC COMS - Video  (Read 7630 times)
beechsundowner
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« on: November 01, 2008, 12:04:21 AM »

No Gyro and ILS approach with ATC COMS - Video

I did two approaches today, each in separate videos.

First one is an ILS approach into HKS Jackson Hawkins airport in VMC conditions.  Purpose of this approach was to "warm up" for my next approach which was a no gyro approach into KJAN Jackson MS.

Both videos contain ATC communications as well as my own ramblings on what I was thinking or doing during each approach.

When I say flaps down, that is my flap handle is going down, flaps are actually going up smiley

The No Gyro approach has the instrument panel for the part of the video.  Camera is secondary to flying the plane, so bear with the camera work.  The no gyro video is best viewed full screen so you can read the ground tracking on the Garmin 430 GPS.

During the no gyro approach, I was assigned a discrete frequency when I departed HKS, and only one approach controller worked me from beginning to end of the approach.  Once I got "visual" the radio chatter resumed. 

This second video (non gyro) shows the true professionalism and expertism of ATC guiding us home!

ILS KHKS
No Gyro KJAN

For those not familiar with a no gyro approach, this is executed when I lose my vacuum pump which would "break" my directional gyro and attitude indicator.  To simulate this type of problem, this was the reasons post-its were covering the two gauges.

Practicing these ny gyro approaches from what I am told is a win win situation for ATC and myself.  ATC is required to do a number of these to maintain their currency so why not do this on a severe clear day and when there is not much traffic.
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englishpilot
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« Reply #1 on: November 01, 2008, 12:38:27 AM »

I've watched one of your videos before and I've noticed that you always go head first into a full blown transmission each time you call approach. 

They like it if you just say "XXXXX approach, NXXXXX" and wait for them. Rather than go "XXXXX approach, NXXXX is 1000ft for 3000ft I'd like XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"  Give them a chance.

As KJAN is Class C all you need to enter their airspace is to hear your callsign back from them unless they tell you to stay clear of Class C.
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beechsundowner
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« Reply #2 on: November 01, 2008, 12:53:35 AM »

I've watched one of your videos before and I've noticed that you always go head first into a full blown transmission each time you call approach. 

They like it if you just say "XXXXX approach, NXXXXX" and wait for them. Rather than go "XXXXX approach, NXXXX is 1000ft for 3000ft I'd like XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"  Give them a chance.

As KJAN is Class C all you need to enter their airspace is to hear your callsign back from them unless they tell you to stay clear of Class C.


If the frequency is busy, I do exactly what you say, call into approach with my tail number and wait for them to call me back, but if the frequency is not busy, why not get everything out in one call? 

I talked to the controllers here, and they said it really doesn't matter but it is less back and forth radio traffic to get it out on the initial call up.  My instructor always said, use the three WWW's on initial contact.

Who I am Sundowner 1943L
Where I am Out of Madison, climbing through 1000
What I want. headed to the practice area

Yeah, regarding Charlie airspace you hear me say in the beginning, that my tail number was acknowledge but as an after thought, I realized I was beyond the outer ring of charlie so you hear me say "it didn't matter"

Either school works on call up, it's just a matter of common sense that needs to prevail.  If it's busy, call in as you suggested, but if the freq is not jamming, do everything in one call is the way I work.
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pgarside
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« Reply #3 on: November 01, 2008, 01:42:19 AM »

Wow excellent work with the no gyro approach.  My question is how did you go about setting this up with the controlers...just ask them if they were able to do a practice no gyro while you were on a typical ifr flight?
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2008, 08:59:49 AM »

I've watched one of your videos before and I've noticed that you always go head first into a full blown transmission each time you call approach. 

They like it if you just say "XXXXX approach, NXXXXX" and wait for them. Rather than go "XXXXX approach, NXXXX is 1000ft for 3000ft I'd like XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"  Give them a chance.

Are you pointing this out strictly from a VFR point of view, or do you also assume this is true while IFR?
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ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
englishpilot
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« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2008, 09:20:05 AM »

I've watched one of your videos before and I've noticed that you always go head first into a full blown transmission each time you call approach. 

They like it if you just say "XXXXX approach, NXXXXX" and wait for them. Rather than go "XXXXX approach, NXXXX is 1000ft for 3000ft I'd like XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX"  Give them a chance.

Are you pointing this out strictly from a VFR point of view, or do you also assume this is true while IFR?

VFR - I just think it's polite practice and I know that the controllers where I mainly fly (Class C too) do appreciate it.

But then again each to their own.  At the end of the day if the flying's safe not much else matters!
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beechsundowner
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« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2008, 09:48:48 AM »

Wow excellent work with the no gyro approach.  My question is how did you go about setting this up with the controlers...just ask them if they were able to do a practice no gyro while you were on a typical ifr flight?

In the HKS ILS video, at 03:22 you will hear me request the approach.  I was being handled VFR as you will see I also requested that in the ILS video.
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beechsundowner
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« Reply #7 on: November 01, 2008, 09:51:33 AM »

But then again each to their own.  At the end of the day if the flying's safe not much else matters!

That is pretty much the bottom line. 

Flexibility by the pilot pretty much common sense, listen / monitor first before keying up.  If I hear tail numbers only on the initial call up, I should do the same.
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davolijj
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« Reply #8 on: November 01, 2008, 11:12:55 AM »

Nice videos.  It was nice to hear E-D at HKS again.  She's an excellent tower controller who used to work at GLH and transferred to HKS last year.  I've worked your aircraft several times on 132.5.  Nice work.
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JD
beechsundowner
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« Reply #9 on: November 01, 2008, 04:07:52 PM »

Nice videos.  It was nice to hear E-D at HKS again.  She's an excellent tower controller who used to work at GLH and transferred to HKS last year.  I've worked your aircraft several times on 132.5.  Nice work.

I thought that voice was familiar elsewhere.  Bit more traffic at HKS then at GLH I'd imagine smiley

Y'all in Memphis center are great folks.  Letter I sent to NATCA on handling (who knows, may have been you!) did for me on an IFR flight.  http://discussions.flightaware.com/viewtopic.php?p=34220#34220
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davolijj
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« Reply #10 on: November 01, 2008, 09:07:20 PM »

I thought that voice was familiar elsewhere.  Bit more traffic at HKS then at GLH I'd imagine smiley

Probably more consistant VFR traffic at HKS but you'd be surprised at how many military trainers practice approaches at GLH and then stay for pattern work.  I'm told they also have a rather large aircraft painting operation there which brings in air carrier traffic.

Y'all in Memphis center are great folks.  Letter I sent to NATCA on handling (who knows, may have been you!) did for me on an IFR flight.  http://discussions.flightaware.com/viewtopic.php?p=34220#34220

Thanks...I appreciate the compliment, that was a very nice letter, and it wasn't the first time I'd seen it.  It wasn't me who worked you, although I was working that day in Sept 2007, and the EWA-Lo sector 132.75/125.97 is in my area of specialization.  We have some very good controllers working at Memphis Center, some of the smartest people I've ever met...and journeymen with decades of experience.  At any given time there is over a century's worth of experience manning 7 sectors in my area alone (except on weekends).  I'm still kind of a neophite but I believe that controllers all over the system are at their absolute best during severe weather operations.

It's going to be a real shame to see so much of our veteran workforce walk out the door over the next few years.  As grouchy as they can be I've really come to appreciate the "old guys."
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JD
beechsundowner
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« Reply #11 on: November 01, 2008, 11:37:07 PM »

I'm still kind of a neophite but I believe that controllers all over the system are at their absolute best during severe weather operations.

Understatement of the year!  Especially when you got folks like me bumbling through the skyways grin

I will say it wasn't my first awesome experience with ATC due to a forecast bust....  Just fascinating to me, on how things "just work".

It's going to be a real shame to see so much of our veteran workforce walk out the door over the next few years.  As grouchy as they can be I've really come to appreciate the "old guys."

Don't worry, you will be the "grouchy one" in where the younger generation will be wearing your shoes!

If you could do me a flavor and forward the no gyro approach to the KJAN folks so they can see the thanks I put at the end, this would be most appreciated. 

Not only for the thanks I put at the end, whoever handled me for that approach just may be intrigued on what it looked like from my end?

My home airport is actually KMBO.


132.75/125.97 is in my area of specialization.

Well, I hope to keep your "job security" intact.  grin

Will be headed up to Bessemer AL EKY next weekend and Turkey day providing the weather Gods behave.
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