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Author Topic: Northwest flight overshoots KMSP any audio?  (Read 12989 times)
JesseFSD
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« on: October 23, 2009, 03:30:25 PM »

Did anyone capture any audio form this day?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TRAVEL/10/23/airliner.fly.by/index.html


Should be interesting when the NTSB listens to the CVR.
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captray
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« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2009, 04:07:31 PM »

Just last week it was reported that 'pilots who nap in the cockpit are more alert during the landing phase' These guys were just doing their best to comply!

I'll bet they were REALLY alert for the landing and for some time after that.
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flygirltammy
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« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2009, 05:25:44 PM »

Just last week it was reported that 'pilots who nap in the cockpit are more alert during the landing phase' These guys were just doing their best to comply!

I'll bet they were REALLY alert for the landing and for some time after that.

LOL!!! Yes. I'm sure. Alert enough to probably barely sleep that night. I am extremely interested to hear what the investigation turns up. I used to be a pilot crew scheduler for an airline, so the 1st thing I thought was fatigue due to a short rest period or something. But they had like 19 hours crew rest prior to that leg. I wonder if there could possibly be a good excuse here.
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joeyb747
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« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2009, 07:21:53 PM »

Did anyone capture any audio form this day?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TRAVEL/10/23/airliner.fly.by/index.html


Should be interesting when the NTSB listens to the CVR.

Not sure about the audio, but lots more info on this incident in the other forum...

http://www.liveatc.net/forums/listener-forum/northwest-pilots-miss-landing-strip/

Only issue with the CVR is it only records the last thirty minutes of activity. So all you would get is the landing portion.
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Aircraft Mechanic
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« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2009, 07:29:25 PM »

Well the excuse they gave sure isnt a good one! Short of communication failure or mechanical failure, I dont think there is a good excuse. If they fell asleep, they should come clean because its gonna back up what people are saying about the hours pilots must endure and the arguement for better regulation of their hours. It might actually save their jobs. It looks like they arent gonna get anything from the CVR, so the "we lost track of time and where we were" defense is what they will go with. Thats as bad as falling asleep.
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flygirltammy
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« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2009, 11:55:33 PM »

I'm pretty sure there is no reasonable excuse, but I didn't want to jump to conclusions so soon. I do think that losing situational awareness like that is probably just as bad as falling asleep, though. I just don't see how losing track of time and position could happen with all the resources they had on that plane (unless, like you said, mechanical or communications failure).
« Last Edit: October 24, 2009, 12:06:15 AM by flygirltammy » Logged

craigs1001
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« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2009, 11:52:52 PM »

I don't buy for one second they were discussing policy no more than Marcus Schrenker had a windscreen implosion last January.  If they were not asleep, no comm problems, what else causes you to lose track of time...I mean a lot of time? Leaves a lot to imagination eh? I'm just saying...... shocked
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joeyb747
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« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2009, 09:40:55 AM »

Speculation is they never changed frequencies off Denver Center. Mini Center had company aircraft reach the airplane on Denver Centers frequency.
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« Reply #8 on: October 25, 2009, 11:12:27 AM »

I'll buy the fact they probably forgot to switch frequencies. Maybe thats when they were having their heated discussion. But that still doesnt answer question as to why they overflew MSP. At some point they shouldve realized they were nearing the time for descent and they werent talking to anyone. As Tammy said, they had plenty of resources to tell them where they were. They obviously werent lost because they found their way back. Their story has too many holes in it.
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sykocus
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« Reply #9 on: October 25, 2009, 02:59:37 PM »

Speculation is they never changed frequencies off Denver Center. Mini Center had company aircraft reach the airplane on Denver Centers frequency.

But still you don't fly 100+ mile past your destination just because you're on the wrong frequency. If they were aware of what was going on around them, there things they would have done before they flew all the way to and then past MSP at their cruising altitude.
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joeyb747
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Nothing Like A 747!


« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2009, 06:04:42 PM »

Speculation is they never changed frequencies off Denver Center. Mini Center had company aircraft reach the airplane on Denver Centers frequency.

But still you don't fly 100+ mile past your destination just because you're on the wrong frequency. If they were aware of what was going on around them, there things they would have done before they flew all the way to and then past MSP at their cruising altitude.

I agree. Something is being covered up here. Read this line from an AP article I linked to in the other forum, but unfortunately is not available anymore:

"But in an interview with The Associated Press two days after he and a colleague blew past their destination as air traffic controllers tried frantically to reach them, pilot Richard Cole would not say just what it was that led to them to forget to land Flight 188."
« Last Edit: October 25, 2009, 06:06:15 PM by joeyb747 » Logged

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« Reply #11 on: October 26, 2009, 10:05:08 PM »

It has come out they were off headset and looking at their laptops and discussing flight schedules and missed MSP

They'll be busted back to regional turboprops soon....
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KASWspotter
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« Reply #12 on: October 26, 2009, 10:52:30 PM »

They will most likely be fired unless the pilots union can save them. Read an article that quoted the airline policy and how use of laptops and non aviation related material was grounds for termination. Not a big deal being on the laptop discussing schedules and such although its against airline policy. No different than reading the POH and studying the aircraft systems. Big deal is that they totally lost situational awareness and missed MSP by 150 miles. Does anyone else find it strange that the pilots are actually interacting and defending themselves through the media?
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flygirltammy
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« Reply #13 on: October 27, 2009, 06:44:00 PM »

I laughed to myself as soon as I heard the part about the crew scheduling system was involved somehow because even before this revelation, I thought "crew scheduling will be blamed in some way" (it can be an unpleasant relationship between crew scheduling and the crews sometimes).

But, I digress. Seriously, I don't know what to think of it. On one hand, yes they made a huge stupid mistake. We're human. That happens. BUT, on the other hand, this was soooo avoidable. This was just plain negligence for more than an hour. It wasn't a simple 'oops' kind of thing. It wasn't just one little thing they did wrong. They made multiple lapses in judgement for more than an hour.

I'm not understanding how this is defendable. Do I feel sorry for these guys who will probably be lucky to fly with a regional now? Sure. But, come on! If this had turned into an accident with even so much as a sprained ankle, I don't think people would be so ready to forgive or defend.

EDIT:  Doh! I just read that their licenses have been revoked. A significant portion of life's work gone.
« Last Edit: October 27, 2009, 06:50:14 PM by flygirltammy » Logged

Junior P
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« Reply #14 on: October 29, 2009, 01:27:29 AM »

So what happens now? can they appeal to get their licences back? Its a real shame to lose your career because of their first career mistake even tho it was big..... cant they just suspend them for 3 months or put them around a desk. WOW im sad that they lost everything they worked so hard for!!
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