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Author Topic: One of the very best approach controllers (N90, EWR)  (Read 85028 times)
goowe
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« Reply #50 on: September 16, 2008, 03:09:51 PM »

Definitely a great recording Smiley I've listened to it a couple of times now, and I just turned it on again while I'm doing homework Smiley
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rpd
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« Reply #51 on: September 16, 2008, 03:41:59 PM »

Slowing aircraft to 150kts or vectoring through final for spacing are all valuable tools to the controller.  It is not a sign of weakness or screw up.  At busier facilities these things are done all day.

Where do you work binky?
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #52 on: September 16, 2008, 03:44:11 PM »

Slowing aircraft to 150kts or vectoring through final for spacing are all valuable tools to the controller.  It is not a sign of weakness or screw up.  At busier facilities these things are done all day.

What about 360s?  This past Monday I overheard 360s (not holds) being handed out to a bunch of aircraft inbound to LaGuardia from the north.   First time I heard that tactic used over that many aircraft.
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rpd
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« Reply #53 on: September 16, 2008, 04:19:41 PM »

Using a 360 instead of a holding pattern can be useful.  It avoids the pilots needing to set up a holding pattern and the controllers do not have to go through the whole holding clearance and EFC time.  For a short delay it is the way to go. 

Not recommended when aircraft are in trail at the same altitude!
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binky
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« Reply #54 on: September 16, 2008, 10:02:20 PM »

First of all the title of the thread is "One of the very best approach controllers...".  Perhaps it should have been called "best sounding.." because that's all it is to me and why I critique what he's saying.  Because no one can see what was happening with the traffic, I can assume that he's behind when he sends aircraft through the localizer for spacing, because its not the way things are normally done.  Yes it happens, but if things work out ideally, it doesn't happen.  I'm not saying he's messing up, but perhaps tweaking.  Same with the speeds, slowing jets to 150 isn't standard practice so it says to me he may have run two aircraft too tight and has to back one off to get the spacing he needs.  So does that make him the very best? Because he uses speed adjustment and vectors through the approach course?

As far as 360's, that's a whole different topic.  This is about EWR approach, not the feeder sector but I'd love to hear someone explain how 360's are used by EWR approach.  As far as where I work, what if I say Walmart?  My point is people fall in love with someones R/T and it leads them to think that that person is better or worse than another controller which is totally ridiculous.
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dave
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« Reply #55 on: September 16, 2008, 10:12:50 PM »

binky-

I think he is one of the very best approach controllers because:

1) I know him personally.
2) I know controllers who have controlled with him.  And *they* say he's good.
3) He trained me and several other VATSIM controllers and he did a great job at that.
4) He taught at the Academy.

All of that has nothing to do with this recording.  I never said he was better or worse than anyone else.  All I was trying to do was provide some entertainment.  This is not a contest.

I'm not sure why you're challenging his competency because he had aircraft going 150 knots.  As any competent TRACON controller will tell you, there is not "one way" or any necessarily "standard" way to do things.  Every controller has his or her own style.

I think this thread has taken an unnecessarily negative turn - perhaps you just misread or misinterpreted the original post that was made some time ago.

-dave
« Last Edit: September 16, 2008, 10:21:30 PM by dave » Logged
binky
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« Reply #56 on: September 17, 2008, 11:44:14 AM »

My only real point was to say that people here shouldnt immediately equate somthing as simplistic as how they think a voice sounds on frequency with their perceived level of proficiency.  That's why I mentioned that there were things done which *might* show that he was actually having to tweak his traffic to make it work, instead of just saying "WOW dude that guy is awesome!!"  If that bothers you because you know the person, I'm sorry I offended you but please don't tell me that 'Pushing Tin' was realistic too.
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rpd
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« Reply #57 on: September 17, 2008, 12:14:54 PM »

Tweaking traffic to make it work is what good controllers do, binky.  The ones who don't have the ability to tweak it and do everything standard are the ones who end up down the crapper.  The good ones use all tools available to them.

Who said Pushing Tin was realistic?
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keith
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« Reply #58 on: September 18, 2008, 02:53:32 PM »

Binky,

Believe it or not, I understand the point you're trying to make. Whether or not his decisions were the most efficient for the situation at hand, we'll never know, and you are correct, the content of this recording doesn't mean he's the BEST controller, or that the controlling couldn't have have been done more efficiently.

What IS clear, though, is that he's handling a large volume of traffic and maintaining absolute control of the frequency for long periods of time.  That is not something everyone can do.  I'm sure professional ATC folks do it all day long, and might not find this recording to be anything special, but for aspiring controllers, or interested members of the aviation community, it's an amazing display of frequency management, and presence.

Apparently, his ability was not lost on some of the professional pilots that were on the air, too...with comments like "you're the man..." as they left the freq.

Slow speeds and vectors through the approach course are just more tools in the bag, and he used them. In a perfect world, you wouldn't need them...but with this many ppl involved, and lord knows what coming from surrounding sectors (we'll never know from an audio recording), he appeared to be getting the job done. 
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capt wally
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« Reply #59 on: October 26, 2008, 12:04:36 AM »

Late response I know but new here to this site, that recording makes me tired just litening to this guy, amazing!. Here in oz that recording would amount to about a weeks worth at Aussie's busiest, SYD! You guys are amzing how you fly in that environment.


CW
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fabian24
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« Reply #60 on: October 10, 2010, 02:18:01 PM »

Where's this clip?
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dave
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« Reply #61 on: October 10, 2010, 02:20:24 PM »

Where's this clip?

Just go back to the first posting in the thread.
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jm0944
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« Reply #62 on: January 02, 2013, 05:28:19 PM »

Great Clip Dave!!  HD is awesome at pushing Tin!
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InterpreDemon
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« Reply #63 on: January 02, 2013, 08:13:52 PM »

First time I heard this, and I disagree with "Binky" when he said, "Because no one can see what was happening with the traffic, I can assume that he's behind when he sends aircraft through the localizer for spacing."

Though having the slight advantage of knowing and flown that airspace, I still felt like I was looking right at his screen as he handed off flights to the tower at a rate of one per minute while also sequencing TEB and through traffic. What is more impressive to me but perhaps less noticed is that it appears he even anticipated incoming hand-offs and would hold off on his "insta-replies" every minute or so to allow them to check in... I note that in that entire recording of hundreds of transmissions I do not recall a single double, even when I thought I heard one at around 29m it actually sounds like intermod, so not only was he in complete control of the airspace, he was in complete control of the airwaves as well. Truly remarkable.

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« Reply #64 on: March 10, 2013, 01:20:29 AM »

I worked with HD for a few years before he transferred off. He was always a solid controller that you could count on, just like most of the controllers in the EWR area here at N90. Our area has always been the toughest, most complex area in the TRACON to get checkedout on, even though JFK usually gets more fanboys. As for what he's doing, going through the loc, and slowing to 160, or sometimes to 150 may not be "ideal", and probably not used often in a lot of other places, but its not uncommon here. Its mostly due to how our airspace is configured into a funnel when landing 22L. We normally have a lot of compression on final, and having aircraft sequenced to bare minimum separation at a speed that is very close to their final approach speed means we wont lose much more spacing inside the FAF. We don't "gig" too much on silly stuff like strip marking or even phraseology on our area as long as you can get the job done. Usually the slower facilities tend to be more strict on that, but they probably never have to deal with both the complexity and volume that we routinely get here. If you can keep all the aircraft separated safely, and jam pack them at bare minimum separation non stop for a whole session at near perfect efficiency, then...what else matters?

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« Reply #65 on: March 11, 2013, 10:39:43 AM »

Wow! Like an auctioneer
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« Reply #66 on: March 12, 2013, 04:12:16 PM »

OUTSTANDING!!  cool

Great Clip Dave! Thanks!
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« Reply #67 on: November 21, 2015, 04:51:42 AM »

HD is now a front line manager at the Houston (I90) Tracon.
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dave
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« Reply #68 on: November 23, 2015, 07:21:23 AM »

HD is now a front line manager at the Houston (I90) Tracon.

smiley
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hdatc
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« Reply #69 on: November 30, 2015, 10:26:46 AM »

He still lives. Thanks for the kind words, Dave. There were no skips in that and no, my phraseology wasn't perfect.  Man we used to move a lot of airplanes the old fashion way. -- with vectors.
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RonR
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« Reply #70 on: November 30, 2015, 12:05:31 PM »

Hey HD, you said "vector"...brought to mind an old "Airplane" movie clip  grin  Sorry, just had to share!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVq4_HhBK8Y

Ron
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« Reply #71 on: December 03, 2015, 11:57:53 AM »

HD taught me a lot about controlling when I was becoming a controller on VATSIM years ago. He even gave me my virtual Boston Center checkride. Amazing controller and a great guy.

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