Author Topic: Plane crash (NGF15D) in Easton, MA (near Mansfield, MA 1B9)  (Read 111425 times)

Offline fholbert

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Re: Breaking news: Plane down in Easton, MA (near Mansfield, MA 1B9)
« Reply #25 on: August 12, 2008, 11:01:11 PM »

I'm not sure if it is its first fatality.. There was the NGF crash off the SoCal coast a year or so back that killed the host for Press Your Luck..

Either way, this is very sad.. Even though three people perished, I wonder more about the person or people they were trying to help..  :cry:

BL.


It was Santa Monica. But he was empty on the way to pick up pax's.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2008, 11:06:57 PM by fholbert »


Offline fholbert

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Re: Plane crash (NGF15D) in Easton, MA (near Mansfield, MA 1B9)
« Reply #27 on: August 13, 2008, 12:22:02 AM »
Fatal crash 3rd in 3 months for volunteer pilots

> On June 3, a flight arranged by Angel Flight
> Central crashed in Iowa City, Iowa, killing a
> 2-year-old girl who had just been treated for
> clubfoot and injuring her mother and the pilot. On
> July 17, a plane flown by an Angel Flight Southeast
> volunteer crashed shortly after takeoff near Tampa,
> Fla., killing all three on board, including a
> 49-year-old cancer patient, a 15-year-old boy and
> the 81-year-old pilot.
>
> "It's been a very, very sad summer," Gollnick
> said. "The entire Angel Flight world is saddened and
> surprised and shocked that this is happening all at
> once."

Offline dave

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Re: Plane crash (NGF15D) in Easton, MA (near Mansfield, MA 1B9)
« Reply #28 on: August 13, 2008, 12:55:23 AM »
Resolution not great, but here is the flight path (courtesy of Passur) of NGF15D:

http://www.youtube.com/v/ff7CEg3LwqI

Offline erspec

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Re: Plane crash (NGF15D) in Easton, MA (near Mansfield, MA 1B9)
« Reply #29 on: August 13, 2008, 07:33:43 AM »
I have never heard anything so humbling and at the same time unbelievable as the ATC  transmission  of the Angel Flight crash that occur ed in Easton MA. I was speechless for an hour after that-! The controller,who I have dealt with many times(as I fly out of 1B9 in Mansfield, MA), was incredible. He should be proud of how he handled himself and the situation. My thoughts are with him, and of course the three who perished.
My take on this crash -sounds like spatial disorientation or vacuum failure.
Larry Spector, Bridgewater, MA

Offline Dog6

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Re: Plane crash (NGF15D) in Easton, MA (near Mansfield, MA 1B9)
« Reply #30 on: August 13, 2008, 08:09:39 AM »
Just some thoughts.

Looked at the Flight Aware track and both the audio and passeur track.

Looked at the "B' chart for Boston, the approach charts for the 4R at KBOS.

Looked at the altitudes on the Flight Aware Track and the approach chart altitudes.

Looked at the METARS for the area at about accident time.

Drew a line on the "B" chart from 4R to crash location.

Perhaps this was a wake turbulence encounter, leading to the spatial
disorientation, followed by a stall/spin.

We have to learn by thinking about these sad things.

Offline KSYR-pjr

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Re: Plane crash (NGF15D) in Easton, MA (near Mansfield, MA 1B9)
« Reply #31 on: August 13, 2008, 09:26:38 AM »
Perhaps this was a wake turbulence encounter, leading to the spatial
disorientation, followed by a stall/spin.

That is certainly another possibility, given that his aircraft appeared to be about 1,000 feet below the previous aircraft on the approach (basing this on the data from Passeur.  One would suspect that ATC separation would have been sufficient, however, to prevent this.

Warning... media critique follows.  Turn back now if you don't want to read.

The Metro, which is a morning paper that is distributed free around Manhattan (NYC) mostly near the subway terminals, had a terribly sensationalistic sidebar headline in this morning's edition that read, "Bad History."   Next to the story of the accident this particular article went on to discuss the now three fatal Angel Flight crashes across the US (again, different branches of AF).  Of course, three crashes in over 100s of thousands of flights is not a bad history.  Bad timing or bad coincidence, perhaps, but not bad history.

I could go on here about why having such a negative light cast on such a charitable group is bad for society as a whole, but with a little deductive reasoning I think most could see the point I don't necessarily want to make here..


Offline TPL

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Re: Plane crash (NGF15D) in Easton, MA (near Mansfield, MA 1B9)
« Reply #32 on: August 13, 2008, 10:50:53 AM »
Quote
I could go on here about why having such a negative light cast on such a charitable group is bad for society as a whole, but with a little deductive reasoning I think most could see the point I don't necessarily want to make here..

My fiancee was home yesterday and the local Boston stations were cutting in and out of the story.  But she said Channel 5 (local ABC affiliate) had a "Breaking News" cut in at one point with the 3 NGF crash history.  It's too bad they have to take this approach to cover a terrible loss, but given the direction of the media lately, I am not surprised.

In terms of the flight, summertime IMC with NE winds are tough at BOS.  Only 4R is used for landings, and summer sees an increase in traffic given the ramped up Cape Air flights.  It can get awfully tight for timing.  Those approach folks do a great job, and this was no exception.  I don't know how they keep their composure sometimes.


Offline joshua_

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Re: Plane crash (NGF15D) in Easton, MA (near Mansfield, MA 1B9)
« Reply #33 on: August 13, 2008, 01:13:47 PM »
My go-to guess as to what happened here was carbon monoxide impairment, which would have explained the response to the affirmative that he intended to maintain altitude.  If he lost vacuum, he still would have had airspeed and altimeter, hopefully.  I wouldn't rule out spatial disorientation, but with such an experienced pilot...

This is, no matter how it happened, a terrible tragedy.  The Angel Flights really do have a great safety record.  When I heard the controller's voice, I was left speechless... very chilling for somebody but a few days away from getting his private.

Offline Dog6

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Re: Plane crash (NGF15D) in Easton, MA (near Mansfield, MA 1B9)
« Reply #34 on: August 13, 2008, 01:52:56 PM »
Accident Chain aside, remember that - "Fate is the Hunter"
in this business.

Offline ATC@LWSK

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Re: Plane crash (NGF15D) in Easton, MA (near Mansfield, MA 1B9)
« Reply #35 on: August 13, 2008, 05:43:56 PM »
'I think he's crashed'

August 13, 2008

In a dramatic recording, an air traffic controller can be heard growing increasingly concerned yesterday after watching the fluctuating altitude of the airplane that would eventually crash in Easton. The controller urges the pilot to maintain his altitude and then loses contact with him and wonders if he has crashed.

"Angel Flight 1-5 Delta, altitude indicates 1,200. Low-altitude alert, climb immediately," the controller says. "Angel Flight 1-5 Delta, climb immediately."

"1-5 Delta's climbing," comes the response.

"Angel Flight 1-5 Delta, maintain 3,000. Say heading," says the controller.

The pilot of the plane gives the controller his heading.

"Angel Flight 1-5 Delta, maintain 3,000. Say heading," the controller repeats a second later. But this time there's silence.

"Angel Flight 1-5 Delta, Boston, your altitude is going up and down. Are you all right, sir?" says the controller, who continues to guide other aircraft in between calls to the plane.

But there's no answer. "Is anyone acknowledging a receipt from that aircraft?" the controller asks.

Talking to another pilot, the controller later says, "Just west of you an airplane has gone off my radar. I think he's crashed."

The controller tells the other pilot, "His altitude went up, down, up, down, and then he disappeared off the radar at really low altitude."

The recording was provided by LiveATC.net, which maintains an archive of such recordings as an educational resource for pilots and air traffic controllers.

Source: http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/articles/2008/08/13/i_think_hes_crashed/

Offline reesed

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Re: Plane crash (NGF15D) in Easton, MA (near Mansfield, MA 1B9)
« Reply #36 on: August 13, 2008, 07:17:17 PM »
It was n4615d.

Offline mark5388916

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Re: Plane crash (NGF15D) in Easton, MA (near Mansfield, MA 1B9)
« Reply #37 on: August 13, 2008, 07:42:08 PM »
I remember listening to my scanner after  mid-air near Corona Municpal.  On the Riverside Tower feed aircraft were calling to see if the tower cab saw anything on there radar scope, then you hear all the local police helicopters heading over there... very sad day that was.

Offline nhpilot

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Re: Plane crash (NGF15D) in Easton, MA (near Mansfield, MA 1B9)
« Reply #38 on: August 13, 2008, 07:56:13 PM »
Listening to the pilot/controller transcript, what immediately jumped out to me is that he seemed to be struggling with just basic communications at times from the very beginning. Seemed quite stressed at times.  Angel Flight is a wonderful organization, and the record does speak for itself. I do have a question for those involved. Is there a minimum requirement (currency, total time, etc) for participating in these missions? Can't imagine they would just let anyone volunteer. And is there some type of individual monitoring once you're signed on?

In any case, without further speculation, prayers go out to all involved.

Offline KSYR-pjr

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Re: Plane crash (NGF15D) in Easton, MA (near Mansfield, MA 1B9)
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2008, 08:20:05 PM »
Is there a minimum requirement (currency, total time, etc) for participating in these missions? Can't imagine they would just let anyone volunteer. And is there some type of individual monitoring once you're signed on?

Minimum requirements vary from AF group to AF group, but for Angel Flight Northeast they require a current medical, a current biennial flight review, a minimum of 250 hours and, most importantly, an instrument rating.  They also require all flights to be flown under IFR.

As far as monitoring once you become a member, AFNE requires your medical and biennial flight review to remain current, and a current insurance certificate for the aircraft you fly plus the dates of the annual inspection and IFR certification.

Offline twe

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Re: Plane crash (NGF15D) in Easton, MA (near Mansfield, MA 1B9)
« Reply #40 on: August 13, 2008, 08:40:43 PM »
What was described as a "large S-shaped deviation"  in one of the replies appears to actually be downwind vectors by approach control as they searched for a window to turn him to final among the faster aircraft on the ILS 04R.  In fact, this is what the controller stated in the radio exchange when they asked for his final approach speed.

Offline KSYR-pjr

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Re: Plane crash (NGF15D) in Easton, MA (near Mansfield, MA 1B9)
« Reply #41 on: August 13, 2008, 08:50:13 PM »
What was described as a "large S-shaped deviation"  in one of the replies appears to actually be downwind vectors by approach control as they searched for a window to turn him to final among the faster aircraft on the ILS 04R. 

That has already been established over a day ago.  Four or five posts after the one to which you are referring I admitted that once I listened to the audio clip the reason for the deviation was very clear. 

What you seem to be missing now that you are reading this thread a day and a half later is that the first several posts here were actually appending to this thread while the fresh information about this accident was still being discovered.   

Offline N628PW

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Re: Plane crash (NGF15D) in Easton, MA (near Mansfield, MA 1B9)
« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2008, 12:55:04 PM »
My friend and I were discussing this. It's just so sad and mysterious. If I remember the METAR report, it was defiantly IMC, but nothing severe at all. Light Rain, a broken ceiling of maybe 900'. Otherwise 9SM vis. I mean, almost marginal VFR. Eh, maybe that's a stretch but still. I think during this very critical phase of flight the pilot somehow must have gotten disoriented. You're flying into a very busy class bravo, and your best forward is 130. Approach is trying to squeeze you in with jets easily doing 180 on approach.  Alot is going on in the cockpit during this time, and its very easy to get disoriented, lose awareness and perhaps stall/spin.

I'm a Boston native and resident. I know how important our hospitals are and how crucial these Angel Flights are. But perhaps if the pilot chose an alternate airport he may have been more comfortable and have an easier time. Boston Logan has PLENTY of class delta satellites that are a very close drive into the city. Bedford, Lawrence, Beverly, Norwood, etc. 

To me sequencing in an aircraft with a best forward of 130kts among those big guys is dangerous in itself. The pilot never mentioned any mechanical or systems failures. Never even declared priority or emergency. You could hear the fear in his voice on the audio however. You could hear the fear long before his altitude started fluctuating (if I recall correctly). I'm guessing he was doing his best to stay calm and collected for his passengers.

Anyway, this is my uneducated analysis of the incident. I'm not a pilot nor an ATC. I've been an enthusiast for years, and that's all I can say. I'm just going by what I remember hearing and reading (audio, transcripts, metars, etc)

Well, god bless the pilot and his passengers. I will be following this until the NTSB releases their official report (probably close to a year from now)

-Matt



Offline KSYR-pjr

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Re: Plane crash (NGF15D) in Easton, MA (near Mansfield, MA 1B9)
« Reply #43 on: August 14, 2008, 01:04:34 PM »
To me sequencing in an aircraft with a best forward of 130kts among those big guys is dangerous in itself. The pilot never mentioned any mechanical or systems failures. Never even declared priority or emergency. You could hear the fear in his voice on the audio however. You could hear the fear long before his altitude started fluctuating (if I recall correctly). I'm guessing he was doing his best to stay calm and collected for his passengers.

As a pilot who has flown into Boston Logan under the Angel Flight callsign in both a C172 and a Bonanza V35 quite a few times, I respectfully disagree.   Dangerous in aviation is only when the skills required to handle the aircraft grossly exceed a pilot's capabilities.  

I am not at all implying that this accident pilot's capabilities were exceeded because I do not know his experiences, but keeping best speed forward in a Bonanza is a relatively easy thing to do:  You simply leave the gear up until hitting the outer marker on the ILS.

I will agree with your implication that flying into Boston in IMC as a single pilot does require a great deal of multitasking capabilities and the primary key is always be ahead of the aircraft and the phase of flight.  Always.

Offline keith

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Re: Plane crash (NGF15D) in Easton, MA (near Mansfield, MA 1B9)
« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2008, 03:57:45 PM »
That was absolutely gut wrenching to listen to.  I'm not one to pray, but I'm going to go ahead and give it a try, just in case it will help those affected by this accident.

As someone who recently received their instrument rating, this clip does nothing but increase my resolve to make sure I stay as sharp as possible at all times any time I'm operating an airplane.

To the poster who commented that the pilot seemed slightly out of sorts over the radio, I agree that on one of the check-ins, he seemed slightly distracted as he read back the altimeter, but from that point onward, his radio work seemed sharp as ever, reading back new heading assignments instantly, including calculating a new heading when assigned '10 degrees right' by ATC.

Full credit to the controllers for doing their level best while dealing with a sky full of airplanes on final.  I also give credit to the other pilots on frequency for minimizing their transmissions and speaking quickly to keep the frequency clear. You can just tell that everyone was paying attention and hoping for the best possible outcome.

If this turns out to be wake turbulence related, it will shake me even more, if that's possible.

Offline dave

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Re: Plane crash (NGF15D) in Easton, MA (near Mansfield, MA 1B9)
« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2008, 04:26:15 PM »
In looking at some of the data available at the time, and looking at the excellent job done by the controller building space on the 4R final, it seems unlikely that wake turbulence was a factor.  Not out of the question, just unlikely.

KBOS 121354Z 35008KT 9SM -RA BKN009 BKN027 OVC050 17/15 A2970 RMK AO2 SLP056 P0002 T01720150

Surface winds at Boston were out of 350 degrees at 8 knots.  Assuming the winds at 3,000 feet were not that different (winds aloft at 3,000 seem to have been trending out of the north/northwest all week), then it seems that any undissipated wake left over from the preceding jet (which was not close to the Bonanza at all) would probably have been off-course and not encountered by the Bonanza.  In addition, wake turbulence is less hazardous during the en route phase of flight, as opposed to takeoff and landing.

I am sure the NTSB will look at all angles and it will be educational to eventually read the final report, as those reports are useful reading for all active pilots.




Offline KSYR-pjr

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Re: Plane crash (NGF15D) in Easton, MA (near Mansfield, MA 1B9)
« Reply #46 on: August 14, 2008, 04:35:22 PM »
I am sure the NTSB will look at all angles and it will be educational to eventually read the final report, as those reports are useful reading for all active pilots.

AvWeb just announced that Aviation Safety will be doing an expanded analysis article on the Angel Flight accidents later this year.  Seems somewhat aggressive to me given that it normally takes up to one full year for the NTSB to release a final report for an accident.

Offline Dog6

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Re: Plane crash (NGF15D) in Easton, MA (near Mansfield, MA 1B9)
« Reply #47 on: August 14, 2008, 08:35:42 PM »

More thoughts on Wake Turbulence -

No arguments here, just sharing information and I certainly hope the NTSB considers the possibility of
wake turbulence.



Submitted for consideration the following:

The METAR at KBOS for 1415Z (nearer the time of accident) had the winds at 35008G14KT.

Two other stations report METAR information closer to the accident site: They are KMEQ, the Blue Hills Observatory, just west of the approach course at just about 9 NM out from KBOS.  And KOWD, Norwood Airport, west of the approach course at just about 12 NM  out from KBOS.  It's a shame Mansfield does
not have an ASOS/AWOS.

The Runway 4R direction at KBOS is 040 degrees MAGNETIC.

The Approach Course is 036 degrees Magnetic.

The METAR winds (source AIM 7-1-12) are reported in tens of degrees from TRUE NORTH, to make the
True North winds Magnetic a correction is made by considering Magnetic Variation (east is least/west is best).  The Magnetic Variation is 15 degrees West in the accident area.  So 15 is added to the
True North winds to obtain a Magnetic wind direction.

KBOS at 1415Z - 35008G14KTS (True) would be 005 degrees (Magnetic)

KMEQ at 1354Z - 34007KTS (True) would be 355 degrees (Magnetic)

KOWD at 1400Z - 01007KTS (True) would be 025 degrees (Magnetic)[/b]


Additionally, surface winds generally shift to the right as altitude increases, because surface friction
ends about 1000' AGl.

It is reasonable to consider that the winds aloft at 3000' and 4000' would be more Northeast and
could cause Wake Turbulence to be sitting along and west of the transition/final approach course a lot longer than one would think.

I consider that being assigned 3000' under all that "big boy" traffic at 4000', caused the upset leading to the spatial disorientation.

The AIM (Aeronautical Information Manual) at 7-3-1 presents Wake Turbulence, it is worth a refresher.


We need to think about this stuff.










Offline KSYR-pjr

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Re: Plane crash (NGF15D) in Easton, MA (near Mansfield, MA 1B9)
« Reply #48 on: August 14, 2008, 09:41:27 PM »
Here are some statistics that were included in an email from Angel Flight to its pilots today.   Please keep these in mind when you read the many sensationalistic headlines in the papers, on the web, and those barfed out by the talking heads:

Quote
It is with deep sadness that we mourn the loss of one of our Angel Flights on Monday.

As we grieve the loss of three very special lives, we also remember all the lives that Angel Flight continues to bring healing, hope and help too.

Angel Flight Northeast has been flying for over 12 years. We have booked 53,000 children and adults on 30,000 scheduled flights flying 7.6 million miles without an accident or injury. Monday’s tragic accident was the first in our history.

Unfortunately in the past three months, Angel Flight Central and Angel Flight Southeast also experienced accidents. These three accidents were the first in 25 years of flying for the five independent major Angel Flight groups in the country that make up the Air Charity Network to which we belong.

Collectively in 25 years, volunteer pilots flying Angel Flight missions have flown more than 160,000 flights, flying just under 100 million miles nationwide without an injury or accident.

Offline KSYR-pjr

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Re: Plane crash (NGF15D) in Easton, MA (near Mansfield, MA 1B9)
« Reply #49 on: August 14, 2008, 09:52:35 PM »
More thoughts on Wake Turbulence -

You forgot one important fact about wake turbulence.  Wake turbulence descends at almost 900 feet per minute.   Thus, an aircraft 1,000 feet below and behind another aircraft would have to be within one minute of the previous aircraft to risk encountering the previous aircraft's wake.   One minute at 161 miles per hour (140 kts, or the speed at which the Bonanza was attempting to maintain on approach) is about 2.7 miles, which I am pretty sure is not ATC separation for a small aircraft behind a large aircraft on an ILS approach.