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Author Topic: Plane crash (NGF15D) in Easton, MA (near Mansfield, MA 1B9)  (Read 57758 times)
Hollis
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« Reply #75 on: August 31, 2008, 09:18:48 PM »

There is really no need to speculate on this. I'm sure the NTSB guys will have the answer in due time.
Meantime, we can only assume what MIGHT have happened. For instance, had there been a structural failure, or a critical equipment failure, I'm sure the pilot would have declared an emergency.
My opinion, as were some others here, was just ONE of the more likely 'probable cause' situations.
 
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NoMad
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« Reply #76 on: September 01, 2008, 11:01:48 AM »

C'mon guys.  Space aliens could have abducted the pilot, then put him back a minute later and he was too dazed to regain control.

I'm exagerating but the point is there is no radio or radar evidence that can conclusively point to one explanation or another.  Witness statements vary and also can not point to one conclusion or another.  All parties involved died in the crash so you can't ask them.

So assuming the investigators don't find any obvious pre-crash mechanical or structural defects, the cause of the crash will never be conclusive and will remain as something like "unknown human factors".  Maybe it was simple IFR spacial disorientation.  Maybe he was sick.  Maybe he encountered wake turbulance from the star ship enterprise.  Maybe an instrument vacuum line popped off.  Nobody can or every will know.

So all the bickering and arguing of what might have caused it is pointless.
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Robin Rebhan
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« Reply #77 on: September 01, 2008, 06:18:45 PM »

The loss of an Angel Flight strikes the heart of many here and the personal hurt is great. As pilots, ATC, aviation enthusiasts, some are Angel Flight volunteers or with similar groups themselves. Every one grieves for the loss.

This is a forum where we are all friends that have a common bond of aviation. As such, we are able to talk or discuss the issue. We all like to bring some sort of closure. What caused the accident? How can it be prevented in the future? How can it be prevented on my next flight?

 We are not trying to be judgemental in speculation. AOPA, ASF, Nall Report, and NTSB Statistical analysis are all too grim as to General Aviation accidents. The statistics change little from year to year. 65% of fatal accidents are pilot error, 14% weather, 7% mechanical failure and the rest unknown.

     We discuss probable cause in hopes that pilots, atc and future pilots will learn, think safe, be safe. And forever be mindful as to how unforgiving mistakes in flight can be. Flight is a most dangerous mistress.

As Wilbur Wright said-

 " If you are looking for perfect safety,
you will do well to sit on a fence and watch the birds;
but if you really wish to learn,
you must mount a machine and
become acquainted with its tricks by actual trial."
—Wilbur Wright, 1901

We look to pass on our life experiences in flight that you may not have to learn the hard way by actual trial. If discussion heals one saddened person it is well, if it saves one life, it is better still.

Safe flying to all!
Robin Rebhan
Albany, NY
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #78 on: September 01, 2008, 06:26:34 PM »

The loss of an Angel Flight strikes the heart of many here and the personal hurt is great. As pilots, ATC, aviation enthusiasts, some are Angel Flight volunteers or with similar groups themselves. Every one grieves for the loss.

This is a forum where we are all friends that have a common bond of aviation. As such, we are able to talk or discuss the issue. We all like to bring some sort of closure. What caused the accident? How can it be prevented in the future? How can it be prevented on my next flight?

Well written, Robin.  I don't see the opposing viewpoints here as bickering - just opposing viewpoints.  And since this is the only forum to which I post that allows discussion of this subject by well educated and experienced peers, participating in it does offer some type of solace.
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
1958MM
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« Reply #79 on: September 01, 2008, 07:40:15 PM »

As Wilbur Wright said-

 " If you are looking for perfect safety,
you will do well to sit on a fence and watch the birds;

The passengers of any airplane should expect almost "perfect safety."

IMHO - Angel Flight pilots should be commercial rated.
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #80 on: September 01, 2008, 11:26:02 PM »

IMHO - Angel Flight pilots should be commercial rated.

You throw up a barrier like that and you can then expect somewhere around an immediate 60-80% drop in number of volunteering pilots.   How many flights would then go unfilled each month?   Approximately 75-80%, since often most flights are flown by the same pilots.  To give all an idea of volume Angel Flight Northeast provides somewhere in the order of 15-25 flights per week, or about 100 flights per month.  So my hypothesis is that around 80 flights would go unfilled each month.

With unfilled flights you then have patients making the very difficult choice between extremely excruciating auto or train round trip commutes and perhaps saying to hell with going that appointment.  Then what?  Possible that health or quality of life problems significantly increase for these people?

A knee jerk, appease-the-masses-type reaction to what is an extremely small percentage of fatal accidents since AF's inception would be detrimental to those who rely on AF for their recurring cancer/burn/organ transplant treatments.  IMHO.

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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
Robin Rebhan
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« Reply #81 on: September 02, 2008, 05:10:58 PM »

     A Commercial Rating does not make a dent in the statistics accident wise. What does matter is good solid aeronautical decision making no matter what your rating or how many hours you have flown. Avoiding dangerous attitudes, good thorough flight planning and preflight and etc. all the way from takeoff to landing. Majority of GA accidents would be avoided if the pilot in command had exercised a good go, no-go decision.
     Nobody ever said doing the right thing is easy. It may well be the most gut-wretching decision you have to ever make and that's telling a medical patient that the flight is a no-go, but, it is the right decision.

     Have a Safe Flight!
     Robin Rebhan
     Albany, NY

     
« Last Edit: September 02, 2008, 07:25:14 PM by Robin Rebhan » Logged

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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #82 on: September 03, 2008, 08:59:19 AM »

IMHO - Angel Flight pilots should be commercial rated.

Interesting... the NTSB preliminary report indicates the accident pilot was a certificated commercial pilot.   It seems as if that barrier alone wouldn't have helped in this case.
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
mk
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« Reply #83 on: September 03, 2008, 10:46:48 AM »

yeah...so make these Angel Flight Pilots get their commercial rating...now you the same pilot who can do lazy 8s...that doesn't help in real world flying.  i'd venture to guess that over 70% of the Angel Flight Network Pilots qualify for a commercial upgrade. (hour requirement wise)
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Robin Rebhan
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« Reply #84 on: September 10, 2008, 05:59:54 PM »

There is an interesting article in the July issue of Flying Magazine. Page- 58 " Low Speed Loss of Control ". Written by my favorite author Richard L. Collins.
1st accident in the article has a number of similarities to the one in question. It's a good read.  http://www.flyingmag.com/piloting/1002/low-speed-loss-of-control.html
Robin Rebhan
Albany, NY
« Last Edit: September 28, 2008, 12:43:12 PM by Robin Rebhan » Logged

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B1900Mech
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« Reply #85 on: August 23, 2009, 02:25:02 AM »

It sounded to me like the pilot was having medical issues, Maybe a heart attack?
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aviator_06
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« Reply #86 on: August 24, 2009, 10:54:20 PM »

First time I heard of the accident. My prayers go out to all the families
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