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Author Topic: PVD Runway Incursion  (Read 21841 times)
davolijj
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« on: August 22, 2005, 05:43:40 PM »

All this talk about the new PVD feed reminded me of a runway incursion they had there a while back.  I couldn't find the NTSB report but I dug up an NTSB virtual depiction with radio communications of what transpired.  Unfortunately I only have it in Real Media format and users will have to download it to their computer.

A United 737 (UAL1448) was assigned a taxi route which he deviated from due to thick IFR conditions.  The aircraft strayed onto an active runway which a FedEx airbus had just been cleared to takeoff from.  The two aircraft came within a few hundred feet of eachother.

This occured while PVD was still utilizing parallel runways (5L and 5R), they've since decommisioned 5L.  I believe ASDE (Airport Surface Detection Equipment) is now in use there but I'm not certain.
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JD
Jason
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« Reply #1 on: August 22, 2005, 09:26:32 PM »

Thanks for the clips and diagram....

To back up your diagram the entire scenerio and audio is in this instructional training course by the ASF (Air Saftey Foundation)

http://flash.aopa.org/asf/runwaySafety/
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nfredrich
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« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2005, 02:16:15 PM »

DAH! I drive a plane!
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Nick Fredrich
gbntpilot
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« Reply #3 on: September 11, 2005, 08:18:47 AM »

I just signed up for this site, and this is my first post.  I'm in training at a part 141 flight school, and this is one of the incidents we evaluated when talking about situational awareness (much credit to the USAir flight who refused take off clearance until the situation was resolved).  

I was told that the female tower controller was fired.  I don't know the accuracy of that, but if she wasn't canned, she definitely should have been.

This is the same ATC recording in MP3 format. It's ripped directly from the Real Media NTSB animation.
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davolijj
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PVD
« Reply #4 on: September 11, 2005, 01:40:08 PM »

gbntpilot...

Thanks for your contribution and welcome to the forums.  You're right about the USA pilot, what keen awareness.
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JD
deverette
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« Reply #5 on: September 12, 2005, 11:49:26 AM »

Quote
I believe ASDE (Airport Surface Detection Equipment) is now in use there but I'm not certain.


Yup, it is. Even part of the ATIS. Was "yelled" at by GND while taxing one day  as he wasn't picking up my xpndr (it was on, squawking what it should have been, but for some reason he wasn't picking it up until I was south of the main terminal building). Oh well..

-Dan
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-Dan Everette
hoochiemama78
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« Reply #6 on: September 12, 2005, 08:32:58 PM »

Unreal.  If that USAir had taken off that would have been certain death.  I heard 3 distinct times the male UAL pilot say 23R.  Turns out it was 23L?  Shows terrible cockpit management.  There should have been one crewmember on the radio.  That is terrible.
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davolijj
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« Reply #7 on: September 12, 2005, 08:37:31 PM »

My guess is that the male was the Captain and the female was the FO.  He must have felt the need to assert his "captain's authority" when things got dicey.  I actually thought the FO was doing a nice job of conveying the magnitude of the situation to the controller.  You're right though, props to the USAir pilot.
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JD
hoochiemama78
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« Reply #8 on: September 12, 2005, 08:37:56 PM »

Unreal.  If that USAir had taken off that would have been certain death.  I heard 3 distinct times the male UAL pilot say 23R.  Turns out it was 23L?  Shows terrible cockpit management.  There should have been one crewmember on the radio.  That is terrible.
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PHL Approach
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« Reply #9 on: September 12, 2005, 08:44:50 PM »

Jim, actually it sounded like the woman was the Capt. and the man was the FO. You could kinda tell she had more authority in her voice or so, there is another word I want to use. Just cant think of it.

EJ
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hoochiemama78
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« Reply #10 on: September 12, 2005, 08:54:37 PM »

She definitely cut him off once or twice.  Would an FO ever do that?  

She knew she was on an active at least.  Jeez, the guy had no idea.  Think the controller got written up for this one as well?  I found it hard to believe she was clearing the USAir for takeoff without sight and a confirmed position report from United.  At any rate USAir pilot saved a few lives.

-Tim
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davolijj
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« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2005, 02:05:24 PM »

Quote from: PHL_Approach
Jim, actually it sounded like the woman was the Capt. and the man was the FO. You could kinda tell she had more authority in her voice or so, there is another word I want to use. Just cant think of it.


You're probably right Ed..it's hard to tell.  I could see some women getting pushy and keying up over their captains.  I think I was playing the odds on this one.  There are alot more female FOs in the majors than there are captains.
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JD
keith
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« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2005, 02:04:58 PM »

This was frightening to listen to. Most shocking is that the lost UAL plane kept trying to say "we're on the rwy!" and she kept telling them to shut up while she merrily cleared someone to take off on said rwy.

The other question, of course, is how the hell two ppl could get so lost with the number of hours they have between them. "November, Tango to the ramp" isn't so hard, one would think.
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2005, 02:36:26 PM »

Quote from: davolijj
This occured while PVD was still utilizing parallel runways (5L and 5R), they've since decommisioned 5L.  I believe ASDE (Airport Surface Detection Equipment) is now in use there but I'm not certain.


Jim, call me clueless, but I see no taxiway kilo, which was the taxiway the UAL pilots continually stated they had in sight, on the current PVD airport diagram.  When the 5L runway was decommisioned, did PVD also receive a taxiway make-over?
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Regards, Peter
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davolijj
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« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2005, 02:42:16 PM »

I was wondering about that myself Peter...the pilot seemed fixated on getting accross to it.  You're probably right about the taxiway make-over although maybe someone more familiar with PVD could clear up the confusion for us all.
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JD
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