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Author Topic: PVD  (Read 17464 times)
lyric782001
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PVD
« on: December 16, 2007, 10:37:02 PM »

If you plan on flying to PVD today, please be advised that the ILS runway 5 is in use, but please remain clear of all the closed areas as indicated by the attached map. Thank you  rolleyes


Click here for ATIS.




« Last Edit: December 17, 2007, 01:43:41 PM by lyric782001 » Logged

Michael Graham
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« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2007, 06:20:31 PM »

Ouch.
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Scott Mulhollan
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« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2007, 10:32:22 PM »

Was this the incident that this was referring to?

http://www.projo.com/news/content/storm_act_2_12-17-07_OP89HL2_v23.298f2eb.html
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cessna157
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« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2007, 08:12:48 AM »

Yes.  Apparently the RJ suffered some extensive damage to its left MLG.
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CRJ7/CRJ9 F/O, Travel Agent
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« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2007, 04:04:21 PM »

Please tell me that ATIS was not broadcast over the ATIS frequency like that.  Hopefully this one was typed into some kind of voice software.  I prefer the Human over the machine.
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #5 on: December 18, 2007, 04:18:16 PM »

Please tell me that ATIS was not broadcast over the ATIS frequency like that.  Hopefully this one was typed into some kind of voice software.  I prefer the Human over the machine.

Cannot speak specifically for Providence but I know for a fact that Boston's Logan Airport and Buffalo, NY, have their ATIS read over the ATIS frequency using this text-to-voice software.
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
cessna157
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« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2007, 04:25:01 PM »

D-ATIS is much better than the old style human read ATIS.  Most large and medium sized airports have D-ATIS now, and I can usually copy it down in 1 run through due to the speed and clarity of the information.  Some controllers read ATIS so fast and sometimes have such a strong accent that is takes many run-throughs to get it copied down completely.
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« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2007, 04:28:35 PM »

Please tell me that ATIS was not broadcast over the ATIS frequency like that.  Hopefully this one was typed into some kind of voice software.  I prefer the Human over the machine.

Cannot speak specifically for Providence but I know for a fact that Boston's Logan Airport and Buffalo, NY, have their ATIS read over the ATIS frequency using this text-to-voice software.


Never heard of an ATIS broadcast like that before only computer generated voice ive heard is on the HIWAS, ASOS or AWOS.  Hopefully its easier to understand than this one.  Is it really that hard for a human to make an ATIS?  When I did them in my ATC class it was relatively quick and simple.

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moto400ex
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« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2007, 04:29:47 PM »

D-ATIS is much better than the old style human read ATIS.  Most large and medium sized airports have D-ATIS now, and I can usually copy it down in 1 run through due to the speed and clarity of the information.  Some controllers read ATIS so fast and sometimes have such a strong accent that is takes many run-throughs to get it copied down completely.

So I take it this ATIS posted here is distorted.
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2007, 04:38:30 PM »

So I take it this ATIS posted here is distorted.

In my experience, minus the background noises in this clip, this ATIS "voice" is exactly what I hear over the frequency for the airports I mentioned.
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Regards, Peter
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« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2007, 04:40:00 PM »

It's a little muffled.  That's D-ATIS though.    But trust me, when you're moving towards an airport at 320 kts, trying to hear that is much easier than trying to hear a human voice reading 3 times faster.
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« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2007, 04:58:12 PM »

Is it really that hard for a human to make an ATIS? 

In Syracuse the ATIS is produced by the clearance controller and I have been delayed at least a few times in retrieving my clearance while the controller "cuts a new ATIS."  With aviation fuel prices climbing, waiting a few minutes to get my clearance several times a year adds up and I would prefer the controllers be relieved of their duty to "cut a new ATIS" by this automation.

I do have to admit that I enjoy the human aspect of a controller's delivery, though.   You go from hearing the really, really bored delivery to the really humorous, and who doesn't laugh when you are listening to an ATIS monologue when all of a sudden there is a loud, "AH CHOO" or "HACK, HACK, COUGH, COUGH" from a nearby (presumably) tower controller.
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
moto400ex
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« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2007, 05:06:19 PM »

Is it really that hard for a human to make an ATIS? 

In Syracuse the ATIS is produced by the clearance controller and I have been delayed at least a few times in retrieving my clearance while the controller "cuts a new ATIS."  With aviation fuel prices climbing, waiting a few minutes to get my clearance several times a year adds up and I would prefer the controllers be relieved of their duty to "cut a new ATIS" by this automation.

I do have to admit that I enjoy the human aspect of a controller's delivery, though.   You go from hearing the really, really bored delivery to the really humorous, and who doesn't laugh when you are listening to an ATIS monologue when all of a sudden there is a loud, "AH CHOO" or "HACK, HACK, COUGH, COUGH" from a nearby (presumably) tower controller.

Yea Ive just never heard it before, but then again Ive never really flown into busier airports besides Minneapolis but they didnt have it at the time. 
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cessna157
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« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2007, 05:12:07 PM »

It is a great system the FAA has put in.  It reduces their workload dramatically.  When its time for a new ATIS, all the controller has to do is approve the METAR and make any changes to the airport information section of the ATIS.  It is also combined with the same system that produces PDCs, another tool that controllers love.  Now if my airline were to get ACARS, I know the guys in the CVG ATCT would love it.  Getting a word in on clearance delivery during our heavy departure pushes is more challenging than asking JFK ground a question.
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« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2007, 07:00:23 PM »

In Syracuse the ATIS is produced by the clearance controller and I have been delayed at least a few times in retrieving my clearance while the controller "cuts a new ATIS."  With aviation fuel prices climbing, waiting a few minutes to get my clearance several times a year adds up and I would prefer the controllers be relieved of their duty to "cut a new ATIS" by this automation.

Peter,

Even with D-ATIS you still may have to wait for CD to make changes via the computer.  This is especially true as weather  and airport conditions change rapidly.  Making the new ATIS takes priority over issuing clearances.  We used to have a Flight Data position in many towers that would make the ATIS, rip, stuff, and mark strips.  PDC made that position obsolete but CD sometimes needs some help.  Sorry for your delay.  I'm afraid it's only going to get worse as there are less and less of us each day.  I don't even want to think how many will retire after the new year.

w0x0f
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moto400ex
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« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2007, 10:39:30 PM »

  I'm afraid it's only going to get worse as there are less and less of us each day.  I don't even want to think how many will retire after the new year.

w0x0f
[/quote]

Its funny to hear about a shortage of air traffic controllers when we have so many ATC graduates each year.  I know it take s a while before they can actually start controlling but still it just amazes me with how many students go through CTI schools and they still dont have enough.  Im really starting to consider finishing my ATC courses at my school since I only have about 4 left to double major and maybe instead of going to the airlines ill apply to be a controller.  At least the pay is a little better.
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w0x0f
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« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2007, 09:56:47 AM »

  Its funny to hear about a shortage of air traffic controllers when we have so many ATC graduates each year.  I know it take s a while before they can actually start controlling but still it just amazes me with how many students go through CTI schools and they still dont have enough.  Im really starting to consider finishing my ATC courses at my school since I only have about 4 left to double major and maybe instead of going to the airlines ill apply to be a controller.  At least the pay is a little better.

Well, you said it.  It takes awhile to complete all the training.  The FAA keeps telling the media that they are hiring 1800 controllers a year.  But just as hospitals don't hire new doctors, they hire interns, the FAA is hiring trainees who will take anywhere from 2-3 years and sometimes more to become completely certified. 

NATCA began beating the drum for hiring 5 years ago which would have given adequate time for the trainees to become certified and then season a bit on their own.  The FAA did not want to begin such a large hiring process until they had their B scale salary system in place.  They knew that the imposed work rules and reduced salary structure could not be done until the contract at the time expired in 2006.  That's why there is the big rush now to hire. 

 But the Catch 22 is that there are fewer experienced controllers to train because the imposed work rules leave no incentive to stay.  More than 90% of the controller workforce is above their imposed pay bands and will not get a raise in their base pay.  A controller's retirement pay is determined by a percentage of his base pay.  If the base pay isn't increasing then what's the sense of staying to work 6 days a week, 10 hours per day for an employer that disrepects everything about your profession.  At least there is a cost of living adjustment for retirement pay.   

There is also no incentive to move from a smaller facility to a busier one.  This has always been the progression in this profession.  That is how the busier places kept up with the pace of traffic.  Now the senior controllers  in smaller facilities are above the new pay bands at the busier places.  Let's see, stay here in Podunk or go to Atlanta and get my head beat in 6 days a week, 10 hours a day for the same pay. 

Marion Blakey made the following statement when NATCA told congress that the imposed work rules would lead to a mass exodus of veteran controllers.

 "I was very surprised that the union said that there would be retirements triggered under the current proposal," Blakey said. "Our controllers are very smart ...They are going to do the math."

Yes Marion we have done the math and are replying just as we told you we would.  This bunch does not have a clue and is orchestrating the demise of our air traffic system.  But that's what they wanted all along.  Now they can say to Boeing, Lockheed Martin and all the other aerospace contractors "Look at this mess we made.  Save us from ourselves."  Then you will have a privatized ATC system which no longer cares about safety being the bottom line.  The almighty dollar will now be the bottom line. 

I'll be driving.

w0x0f

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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2007, 04:29:35 PM »

Even with D-ATIS you still may have to wait for CD to make changes via the computer.  This is especially true as weather  and airport conditions change rapidly. 

I was unaware that this service still required significant controller input.  I thought it simply converted the AWOS to an ATIS-style audio and merged in the local NOTAMs.


We used to have a Flight Data position in many towers that would make the ATIS, rip, stuff, and mark strips.  PDC made that position obsolete but CD sometimes needs some help. 

I figured that there probably was a more dedicated position back in the good ol' days.


Sorry for your delay.  I'm afraid it's only going to get worse as there are less and less of us each day.  I don't even want to think how many will retire after the new year.

Ha.  Cannot help but read that first line with a bit of sarcasm.  Smiley  However, so we are clear:  While I do see the benefits of automation to a point (ACARS, for example), IMO I think you controllers are the best and privatizing that service would be one of the biggest mistakes our gov't could make to the US national airspace system. 

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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
w0x0f
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« Reply #18 on: December 19, 2007, 05:52:13 PM »

Peter,

There are still some manual entries required with digital ATIS, especially when runway configurations and airport conditions are changing.

I wasn't trying to be sarcastic, I don't like to see pilots wait around if they don't have to. 

I appreciate your comments about controllers.  Thank you.  Privatization is a real threat.  Our friends at FAA Follies  blogged on government oversight today  http://www.faafollies.com/?p=341 .

w0x0f

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Greg01
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« Reply #19 on: December 19, 2007, 05:54:37 PM »

When I worked up in the BUF ATCT, to change the ATIS all that needed to be done was (if I remember correctly): F4 button, enter, enter, enter, enter...then hit it a few more times to make sure everything went through, preview the ATIS on the screen to make sure everything is correct, and then it enter a few more times. Finally, the controller has to personally listen to the ATIS.

With today's automation, I was surprised that when the METAR was forwarded to the ATIS computer, the wind direction wasn't converted from true to magnetic. That had to be changed manually by the controller.

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