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| | |-+  Qantas 747 engine explodes (or some other small problem)
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Author Topic: Qantas 747 engine explodes (or some other small problem)  (Read 22170 times)
joeyb747
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Nothing Like A 747!


« Reply #15 on: August 31, 2010, 06:23:33 PM »

hey, if there's a partial containment failure, I'm cool with calling it an explosion. If even one bit o' titanium flies out at an unanticipated angle, that counts.

Please don't take this the wrong way...but...

Partial containment...not possible...it's contained...or it's uncontained! Kind of like a light switch...it's on or it's off...

If ANY part punctures the cowling, it is then an uncontained failure.

Contained:



Uncontained (about 4:30 in...)



United 232 is probably the best known example of an uncontained engine failure.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 05:17:53 PM by joeyb747 » Logged

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joeyb747
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Nothing Like A 747!


« Reply #16 on: August 31, 2010, 06:37:39 PM »

Not an explosion.

Agreed. This is what we call an "Uncontained Failure". My guess would be in the turbine section

Not to be rude, but a minor correction here  evil I think this area is called compressor area, the entire engine is a turbine and sections of it are compressor stages  huh

Not to be rude back...but a minor correction for you... evil

Turbine engines run on the suck-squeeze-burn-blow idea...

A turbine engine is divided up into sections. Intake, Compressor, Combustion, Turbine, and Exhaust. The turbine section has blades that rotate. See the pic below...if you compare the diagram to the photos of the damaged engine, it appears to be in the Turbine section...in fact, one pic shows what appear to be the turbine blades pretty clearly...see the second pic here:

http://www.kirotv.com/slideshow/news/24824100/detail.html

And the compressor section you pointed out is further forward. The compressor section is directly behind the main fan disc.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2010, 07:35:16 PM by joeyb747 » Logged

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Eric M
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« Reply #17 on: August 31, 2010, 06:44:29 PM »

By the way...GREAT CATCH ERIC M!!

Thanks, but it was nothing - KIRO-TV (Seattle) reported it on Twitter this morning, which is where I saw it. I just went and dug through the archives after that, and cobbled together the recording.
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joeyb747
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Nothing Like A 747!


« Reply #18 on: August 31, 2010, 06:51:31 PM »

By the way...GREAT CATCH ERIC M!!

Thanks, but it was nothing - KIRO-TV (Seattle) reported it on Twitter this morning, which is where I saw it. I just went and dug through the archives after that, and cobbled together the recording.

Well very nice job! Thanks for taking the time to put it all together!
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Squawk 7700
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WWW
« Reply #19 on: August 31, 2010, 08:38:48 PM »

Eric - Great job on the extended clip! I know from experience that it takes time to compile and edit all this material down.  smiley

Attached is a clip of Qantas 74 checking in with NORCAL on 135.1 from a different receiver location.

Again great job!

Ken

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Feeder:
KHWD Ground/Tower
KOAK Del/Gnd/Twr
KSFO NORCAL App Rwy 28L/R
KSFO Tower/Ground
NORCAL Approach (KOAK)
NORCAL Departure (KSFO/KOAK)
KSJC NORCAL Approach #2
ZOA Oakland Center (35/40/41)

RJTT App/Dep
RJTT Tokyo Control
RJTT Twr/TCA
iskyfly
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« Reply #20 on: August 31, 2010, 08:46:26 PM »

Indeed I would!
It didn't.

There was no shock wave, no detonation. It broke apart due to aerodynamic forces well beyond what it was designed to handle.
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joeyb747
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Nothing Like A 747!


« Reply #21 on: August 31, 2010, 08:54:30 PM »

Indeed I would!
It didn't.

There was no shock wave, no detonation. It broke apart due to aerodynamic forces well beyond what it was designed to handle.


In fact, the cause of death listed on some of the autopsy reports was drowning...witch means they were "alive" when they hit the water...also, some of the emergency oxygen packs had been activated!
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iskyfly
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« Reply #22 on: August 31, 2010, 09:00:06 PM »


In fact, the cause of death listed on some of the autopsy reports was drowning...witch means they were "alive" when they hit the water...also, some of the emergency oxygen packs had been activated!
Correct. The crew cabin impacted the water mostly intact.
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joeyb747
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Nothing Like A 747!


« Reply #23 on: September 01, 2010, 09:03:29 AM »

"Qantas 747 makes emergency landing after 'uncontained engine failure'"

"engine failure in midair punched a hole in the external casing, an incident that one expert called 'extremely rare.' "

Such an incident is referred to as an "uncontained engine failure." "


From:

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/post/2010/08/qantas-emergency-landing/110744/1

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/a/2010/08/31/BA021F67JO.DTL&o=2

Below is a couple pics of the bird involved, Boeing 747-438 VH-OJP (cn 25545/916).
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 09:21:47 AM by joeyb747 » Logged

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joeyb747
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Nothing Like A 747!


« Reply #24 on: September 01, 2010, 09:58:42 AM »

Just a little technical info here:

The power plants on Qantas Boeing 747-438 aircraft VH-OJA thru VH-OJU (21 aircraft) are the Rolls-Royce RB211-524G/T, rated at 58,000 lbf thrust each.
These engines feature FADEC, or Full Authority Digital Engine Control.

Other key features of the RB211-254 series include:

-Triple-spool high-bypass-ratio 4.3 - 4.1
-Single-stage wide-chord fan
-Seven-stage IP compressor
-Six-stage HP compressor
-Single annular combustor with 18 fuel burners (24 on the G/H-T)
-Single-stage HP turbine
-Single-stage IP turbine
-Three-stage LP turbine

http://www.rolls-royce.com/civil/products/largeaircraft/rb211_524/

Below are a couple pics of these powerhouse engines on Qantas B747-438 aircraft.
« Last Edit: September 01, 2010, 10:31:59 AM by joeyb747 » Logged

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Phlux
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« Reply #25 on: September 01, 2010, 11:55:16 AM »

Phone video from inside the plane.

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Charlotte Ground - "Cactus 1441, hold short of mike and give way to the RJ..."

US Airways 1441 - "We have priority here, this same thing happened last time..."

Charlotte Ground - "You have priority when I give it to you, now hold short Cactus 1441..
svoynick
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« Reply #26 on: September 01, 2010, 03:00:07 PM »

Eric...  Very nice work compiling that.  It was a good listen, and yes I listened to it all the way through!

Please don't take this as a criticism, but just a double check for curiosity...  I load the clip with a total track time of 17:39, but within that, I hear two repeated sections:

Section from 2:00-2:24 is repeated from 2:25 to 2:49  (initial call that they were returning)
Section from 11:48-12:03 is repeated from 12:04-12:19 (right to 010 and request for 28R)

Do you hear that, too, or did I just get a corrupted download somehow?

Also my favorite moment:  whoever was working the radio in the cockpit was very cool and clear and professional, but when ATC said that the copmany dispatch wanted to know what the failure was, he just, almost let go for a moment....  "Uh look uh... "...and tell dispatch that we're not in a position to pass that sort of information to them at this stage."

Is my translation from remarkably polite Aussie to English correct?  Did I catch the undertone here:   "Tell dispatch to PISS OFF 'til we're done flying the airplane!"
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flyflyfly
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« Reply #27 on: September 01, 2010, 04:46:25 PM »

Also my favorite moment:  whoever was working the radio in the cockpit was very cool and clear and professional, but when ATC said that the copmany dispatch wanted to know what the failure was, he just, almost let go for a moment....  "Uh look uh... "...and tell dispatch that we're not in a position to pass that sort of information to them at this stage."

Is my translation from remarkably polite Aussie to English correct?  Did I catch the undertone here:   "Tell dispatch to PISS OFF 'til we're done flying the airplane!"

That was exactly what I thought. It was the only moment the pilot clearly hesitated.
Why would dispatch want to know more about the failure at this time anyway? Well, probably to determine the impact on their schedule - depending on whether they could return the plane to service quickly, or whether it needs to be grounded longer for repairs. That's exactly the kind of issues in which pilots, still really busy with returning a broken plane to the ground, are absolutely not interested in...
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Eric M
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« Reply #28 on: September 01, 2010, 07:11:41 PM »

Svoynick, no offense taken at all. It's possible I accidentally doubled a couple of snippets, working across multiple files. I intentionally left in a few of the fuel dump warnings, but any other duplications were not intended.

At any rate, I was happy to be a contributor here for a change, instead of just a consumer!
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MCM
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« Reply #29 on: September 02, 2010, 12:48:45 AM »

svoynick - your translation is spot on.

Operations will always want to know everything - usually because the media will be knocking at the front door before the aircraft has even landed.

Doesn't mean the crew will give them the answers though... that comes when they've got the spare time.
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