Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
May 31, 2016, 03:55:27 AM
Home Help Login Register      
News: Check out: Air Race Classic 2016


+  LiveATC Discussion Forums
|-+  Air Traffic Monitoring
| |-+  Aviation Audio Clips (Moderators: dave, RonR)
| | |-+  Runway Incursion at KPHL
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Runway Incursion at KPHL  (Read 31750 times)
aevins
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 255



« on: July 30, 2007, 03:23:36 AM »

The Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) defines a runway incursion as:

“A runway incursion is any occurrence on an airport runway involving an aircraft, vehicle, person, or object on the ground that creates a collision hazard or results in a loss of separation with an aircraft taking off, intending to take off, landing, or intending to land.”


The following incident occurred at 03:49 UTC on July 29th, 2007, at Philadelphia International Airport, involving two aircraft, AWI3973 and USA1752.

AWI3973 was a Canadair Regional Jet CRJ-200/L bound for Cincinnati (KCVG).
USA1752 was a Boeing 757-200/J inbound from Las Vegas (KLAS).

The weather at the time of the incident is as follows:

KPHL 300254Z 04003KT 9SM FEW050 SCT140 OVC250 22/20 A2997 RMK AO2 SLP149 T02220200 53013

The runway configuration being used at the time was landing runway 09L and departing runway 09R.

A diagram depicting the incident is provided to accompany the audio clip.

The audio clip of the Philadelphia tower frequency contains many but not all of the transmissions made during this event.

The clip begins as the tower controller instructs SWA2570 to execute a missed approach:

135.100
[00:19]   SWA1242 is cleared to land on runway 9R

[00:23]   USA1752 calls the tower to verify the initial taxi instructions (not included in the clip)

[00:46]   RPA3246 (“Brickyard”) is cleared to land on runway 9R

At the same time on the other tower frequency 118.500, another tower controller working departures, clears AWI3973 for takeoff on runway 9L (not included in the clip). As AWI3973 begins their takeoff roll, USA1752 crosses runway 9L without clearance to do so.

[00:53]   The tower controller on 135.100 is alerted to incursion

At the same time, the controller on the other tower frequency 118.500, instructs the departing AWI3973 to abort takeoff (not included in the clip).

118.500
[01:19]   The tower controller issues taxi instructions for AWI3973 to taxi back to runway 9L for departure

[01:44]   End of clip.



This clip exemplifies the importance of understanding taxi instructions and specifically runway crossing instructions. It seems clear in this case that the pilot of USA1752 is at fault, and should have noticed on the airport diagram that taxiway Sierra is at no point located north of runway 09L-27R. The controller repeated the taxi instructions a total of 3 times (only 2 of which are included in the clip).


* PHL Runway Incursion.JPG (225.84 KB, 1317x1211 - viewed 1042 times.)
* PHL Runway Incursion.mp3 (407.95 KB - downloaded 2175 times.)
« Last Edit: August 02, 2007, 02:56:49 AM by aevins » Logged
emanstyle2
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2


« Reply #1 on: July 30, 2007, 03:41:31 AM »

WOOOOOOOOW. I cant believe that plane. what was he thinking. did he really think he was gonna find S on the other side of 9L. What an idiot.


P.S. By the way, thank you for posting this. This was really interesting to read. nice diagram. Thx bro!!!!!!1 afro
Logged
KMSY
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 182


« Reply #2 on: July 30, 2007, 12:26:16 PM »

Just shows how much you need to pay attention. The pilot of USA1752 wasn't even listening when the controller gave the instructions. He asked for clearance to cross and assumed he would get the answer he wanted. Especially for a pilot that should know his way around that airport. He probably flies into there more than most of the other pilots out there.
Logged

Pearson
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 71



« Reply #3 on: July 30, 2007, 01:10:28 PM »

Beautiful work getting the diagrams and clips together. That pilot is sure going to feel like an idiot if he ever hears back that tape, claiming he was "specifically cleared to cross"...
Logged
athaker
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 288



« Reply #4 on: July 30, 2007, 01:53:57 PM »

I don't think that the taxi instructions to go right N, left S could have been much clearer either...he even repeated it I think.  Bravo to tower for catching the wrong turn so quickly.
Logged
KSYR-pjr
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1722



« Reply #5 on: July 30, 2007, 02:23:54 PM »

With those communications between the controller and pilot, the pilot was either *completely* distracted during the initial exchange or he was outright lying on the latter part of this clip.  Given the fact that all ATC communications are officially recorded (not at all considering LiveATC's archive here), I can't possibly believe that this pilot felt his recollection of the exchange would stand.

We probably won't remember to check, but in the US controllers and pilots have the ability to report various safety issues at the   Aviation Safety Reporting System (ASRS, or sometimes referred to as the NASA report).  The online database of incidents is here and this incident reported in the pilot's words might appear over the next few months:


http://akama.arc.nasa.gov/ASRSDBOnline/QueryWizard_Begin.aspx
Logged

Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
aevins
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 255



« Reply #6 on: July 30, 2007, 08:05:16 PM »

That is a great site, thanks for that. I was looking to see if there was a report of the incursion this month at La Guardia, but nothing yet.
Logged
Squawk 7700
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 499



WWW
« Reply #7 on: July 30, 2007, 09:27:29 PM »

Very nice aevins. Great audio and I liked the use of the airport diagram. I was very helpful in visualizing the situation.
Logged

Feeder:
KHWD Ground/Tower
KOAK Del/Gnd/Twr
KSFO NORCAL App Rwy 28L/R
KSFO Tower/Ground
NORCAL Approach (KOAK)
NORCAL Departure (KSFO/KOAK)
KSJC NORCAL Approach #2
ZOA Oakland Center (35/40/41)


RJTT App/Dep
RJTT Tokyo Control
RJTT Twr/TCA
KASWspotter
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 93


« Reply #8 on: July 30, 2007, 09:38:43 PM »

Thought that controller was gonna have an [MOD: controller name removed] moment there and rightfully so. The contollers were on their game as they are all the time and averted what could have been an ugly scene.  I guess its hard to understand how the crew messed that up. The controller not only gave them a right turn but followed it up with a compass direction. Glad the chain of events was broken by the controllers.
« Last Edit: July 30, 2007, 10:09:03 PM by Jason » Logged
PHL Approach
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 743



« Reply #9 on: July 31, 2007, 02:30:15 AM »

Yea, great job with all the info. But it looks like you reversed the positions. Local West 135.1 would have been the position that cleared those guys to land on 9R and told the USA the taxi instructions and Local East 118.5 would have been working those 9L departures. It was pretty intense Sunday night, I don't think I've ever seen that many aircraft lined up on Kilo or on the AOA at one time period! Like 25 stretched from Spot 2 by Kilo 5 all the way down to Spot 10 or 11 at Hotel. Then another 5 on Papa, 10 on Sierra, 5 on Juliet, a few on Whiskey. It was quite intense.
Logged
aevins
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 255



« Reply #10 on: July 31, 2007, 03:34:04 AM »

Oh my mistake, sorry about that, I must have been reading the airport diagram upside down
Logged
PHL Approach
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 743



« Reply #11 on: August 02, 2007, 02:10:33 AM »

It took long enough for the media to break it. You can see the at the top of the video Courtesy: Liveatc.net  grin

http://www.nbc10.com/travelgetaways/13800433/detail.html?dl=mainclick

Here's the video: http://video.nbc10.com/player/?id=137210

Uhh, wrong Tower. I'll be working in that one soon!
Logged
aevins
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 255



« Reply #12 on: August 02, 2007, 02:46:38 AM »

Thank you so much for posting that! Thats awesome that they used some of our information! grin
Logged
Michael_Espinal
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2


« Reply #13 on: August 02, 2007, 02:59:12 AM »

wow it made the news... shocked

Great job alex on this report grin
Logged
emanstyle2
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2


« Reply #14 on: August 02, 2007, 03:03:41 AM »

nice stuff. i saw this in the news and i was like "dam that guys post made it to the news" nice job bro
Logged
KMSY
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 182


« Reply #15 on: August 02, 2007, 03:14:49 AM »

Wow. This site, and our posts can really get the media's attention. I hope they went through the right steps to acquire this audio though.

This very forum is probably most media outlets first stop in investigating reports similar to this. That makes taking the time to compile a clip that much more rewarding.
Logged

KSYR-pjr
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1722



« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2007, 11:49:18 PM »

It took long enough for the media to break it. You can see the at the top of the video Courtesy: Liveatc.net  grin

http://www.nbc10.com/travelgetaways/13800433/detail.html?dl=mainclick

LOL... Did you see the size of that USAirways jet in the news animation??  They made it so big that the left wingtip was hanging over the active runway while it was taxiing parallel to the runway.  Looks like the incursion started well before the pilot crossed, if that animation were to be believed.  grin  grin
« Last Edit: August 02, 2007, 11:50:59 PM by KSYR-pjr » Logged

Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
flygirl
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 5


« Reply #17 on: August 02, 2007, 11:59:10 PM »

"It took long enough for the media to break it. You can see the at the top of the video Courtesy: Liveatc.net  grin"
I'm so glad you're happy PHL Approach.  Lord knows you've been pontificating about PHL long enough to desperately want to convince everyone that you actually know everything there is to know about PHL.  But the truth is that if you were actually a controller at PHL, you'd shut your mouth.  It was obvious to me when you previously posted two controller's names that you weren't a controller.  Only a wannabee.  Real controllers don't want their names posted like Lindsay Lohan's.  Publicizing our names is not a positive thing. 

As another poster said, "But Wow. This site, and our posts can really get the media's attention."  Exactly.  Controllers are doing their job, not striving for media attention.  Unfortunately the media is striving for sensationalism.  Leave us out of this.   angry
« Last Edit: August 03, 2007, 12:00:58 AM by flygirl » Logged
Michael_Espinal
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 2


« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2007, 05:52:11 AM »

Gesh way to crash and kill a Topic Huh flygirl? undecided
Logged
MathFox
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 262


The Flying Fox


« Reply #19 on: August 03, 2007, 07:46:56 AM »

Without mentioning names in particular, I'ld like to point some of the participants in this discussion to Dave's request for civility.
http://www.liveatc.net/forums/index.php/topic,2966.0.html
Logged
ogogog
Full Member
***
Offline Offline

Posts: 120



« Reply #20 on: August 03, 2007, 12:12:58 PM »

"It took long enough for the media to break it. You can see the at the top of the video Courtesy: Liveatc.net  grin"
I'm so glad you're happy PHL Approach.  Lord knows you've been pontificating about PHL long enough to desperately want to convince everyone that you actually know everything there is to know about PHL.  But the truth is that if you were actually a controller at PHL, you'd shut your mouth.  It was obvious to me when you previously posted two controller's names that you weren't a controller.  Only a wannabee.  Real controllers don't want their names posted like Lindsay Lohan's.  Publicizing our names is not a positive thing. 

As another poster said, "But Wow. This site, and our posts can really get the media's attention."  Exactly.  Controllers are doing their job, not striving for media attention.  Unfortunately the media is striving for sensationalism.  Leave us out of this.   angry

thank you flygirl ,i agree for us real controllers we spend a career trying to keep our names out of the press and out of the lime light.at times folkes on this sight try to make somthing out of what may be normal to us because they dont understand what really goes on.
« Last Edit: August 03, 2007, 12:14:39 PM by ogogog » Logged
dave
Site Founder
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 4027



WWW
« Reply #21 on: August 03, 2007, 12:34:51 PM »

Just so it's clear...

1) LiveATC does not *pursue* the media when incidents occur.  Some members have apparently done this, however.  I frown upon it and wish people would not do it.

2) We are occasionally contacted *by* the media and asked if we have any insight on a particular incident, or whether we have any sound clips.  In these cases, I make my best effort to give them useful information.  As an experienced pilot and someone who has some knowledge of the ATC system, I know the limits of my knowledge.   I avoid any wild speculation or disclosure of information I deem to be potentially misleading or damaging to any person, whether a pilot or a controller.  It's the NTSB and FAA's job to investigate the kinds of incidents that are regularly referenced here.

3) Talk about things all you want on the Forum - just keep it civil, factual, and avoid using any names.  Name-dropping of controller names isn't cool.  It might make you feel important, or that you're somehow "connected," but nobody is impressed.  Trust me.

-Dave

Logged
athaker
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 288



« Reply #22 on: August 03, 2007, 01:31:57 PM »

Good job, as always, Dave, keeping this place civil.

And back to the topic at hand:

Peter, that ASRS site is definitely cool!  Get good insight into some of the issues on pilots' and controllers' minds day to day, as a lot of the narratives are "semi-formal", and contain opinions.
Logged
PHL Approach
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 743



« Reply #23 on: August 04, 2007, 01:28:24 AM »

Without mentioning names in particular, I'ld like to point some of the participants in this discussion to Dave's request for civility.
http://www.liveatc.net/forums/index.php/topic,2966.0.html

That's the thing, this topic had NOTHING to do with that. So since someone called me out on it, I went through all my post last night just to see if I had let it slip too many times. Went through 50 pages worth of my posts over a 3 year period and I found out something amazing. I had only posted three names... since 05. Once every year I've posted a name and it's never been a person that doesn't know me personally. Whoppdie doo... To the person that called me out on this, so since there have been a few ATCSs on the forum that have posted other controllers names. Do you think they aren't really controllers? If I was a pilot/controller etc I could care less if a friend posted my name. Just two last things, I was not happy that the media got a hold of it to blow it up. I was happy to see that credit was given to the site for the audio. Second, go find a post where I hinted or said I was a PHL controller?
Logged
aevins
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 255



« Reply #24 on: August 04, 2007, 02:22:24 AM »

For the record, when I originally created this post I had no intention of creating media attention. The reason for which I posted this incident was to exemplify the importance of listening to and understanding taxi instructions, and furthermore to show how a simple directional error could potentially result in a catastrophic accident. I also would like to apologize to the US Airways pilot. It was not my intention for you to come home and hear yourself publicly accosted on the news, even if a mistake was made, for I would not want to hear my mistakes broadcast on television. As for the media, they were doing their job.

On this note, during the past few days I have had the opportunity to speak with controllers regarding generally publicity and this website. It was nice to hear the same response from almost everyone I spoke with, that is they support this site and are thankful for the support we inadvertently give them everyday by listening to the excellent job they do "guiding us home".
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!