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| | |-+  Runway Incursion at KPHL
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Author Topic: Runway Incursion at KPHL  (Read 31701 times)
PHL Approach
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« Reply #25 on: August 05, 2007, 02:00:41 AM »

I'm gonna throw this out there, even though flygirl will probably come in and chew me out for my opinions being to harsh for me not being an ATP or ATCS. Flygirl, sorry Im a "know it all" for knowing the position names.  rolleyes

Ok, I decided to listen to the audio myself in entirety and I found some more stuff that is pretty crucial. It's still not lookin' good for that Captain.

The new clip first starts off with Local West (Controller running 9R) giving USA1752 his initial taxi instructions off of 9R. Only Uniform to Papa.

At 3:00 into the clip LW tells USA1752 to follow the regional on Sierra, the RJ was the aircraft that caused SWA2570 to Go Around so he was exiting 9R at Sierra 1 and making a right on Sierra just after going around the construction areas that taking place on Sierra between S1 and S2. That's why LW said "I gave you taxi instructions" since he had already told him about the RJ that he wanted 1752 to follow for the sequence over to Echo.

Couple of people on other forums had asked "Why didn't the controller say hold short 9L?" It's because he didn't want him to hold short 9L! He wanted him to go the opposite direction. I'm only thinking that either pilot was confused and transposing Kilo as Sierra, if that was the case why weren't they looking at their airport diagram and you would think most USA guys would never be confused at Philly. Considering both Kilo and Sierra are the heaviest used taxiways at the airport and both parallel a runway. That's probably why he didn't see that RJ to follow, possibly because he was looking north up towards Juliet and Kilo...

The last transmission is where the position relief happened.

First time using this site, hopefully it stays up:

http://www.mediafire.com/?61zs7vdmjyz

BTW, aevins don't worry about it. Even though I'm sure flygirl doesn't want to hear the truth about all the LAX, or BOS incidents that had been leaked or picked up by the media over the years.
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Fred Clausen
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« Reply #26 on: August 05, 2007, 02:04:41 PM »

Excellent job Ed. I appreciate the effort Smiley
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Fred Clausen
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« Reply #27 on: September 06, 2007, 12:25:49 AM »

I hold both the pilot and controller accountable for this runway incursion. The pilot asked a specific question "are we cleared to cross", which tower never answers directly. Yes, tower gave his instructions again, but obveously the first instructions left the pilot confused. If tower only said "no, you are not cleared to cross", this never would have happened. I think if shit did hit the fan, tower would be in the hot seat as well.
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xprtmarksman
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« Reply #28 on: October 13, 2007, 02:07:00 AM »

Ground definitely never told him to cross, but when a pilot asks to cross a runway a ground controller shouldn't respond with "I need you to taxi!", even though instructions were given afterwards that had nothing to do crossing the runway.  I've noticed that phraseology is really relaxed at JFK, and it's things like this that makes that bad, because the controller probably got dinged for this too. 
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aevins
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« Reply #29 on: April 01, 2008, 11:26:57 AM »

Found the ASRS report:

Quote
ACN: 750426

Time / Day

Local Time Of Day : 1801 To 2400
Date : 200707

Place

Locale Reference.Airport : PHL.Airport
State Reference : PA
Altitude.AGL.Single Value : 0

Environment

Flight Conditions : IMC
Light : Night

Aircraft : 1

Controlling Facilities.Tower : PHL.Tower
Operator.Common Carrier : Air Carrier
Make Model Name : B757-200
Operating Under FAR Part : Part 121
Flight Phase.Ground : Taxi
Flight Plan : IFR

Aircraft : 2

Controlling Facilities.Tower : PHL.Tower
Operator.Common Carrier : Air Carrier
Make Model Name : Regional Jet 200 ER&LR
Operating Under FAR Part : Part 121
Flight Phase.Ground : Takeoff Roll
Flight Plan : IFR

Person : 1

Affiliation.Government : FAA
Function.Controller : Local
Qualification.Controller : Radar
Experience.Controller.Limited Radar : 10
Experience.Controller.Radar : 2
Experience.Controller.Time Certified In Position1 : 2
Experience.Controller.Time Certified In Position2 : 2
ASRS Report : 750426

Events

Anomaly.Conflict : Ground Critical
Anomaly.Non Adherence : Published Procedure
Anomaly.Incursion : Runway
Independent Detector.Other.ControllerA
Resolutory Action.Controller : Issued New Clearance
Consequence.FAA : Investigated
Miss Distance.Horizontal : 700

Assessments

Problem Areas : Flight Crew Human Performance
Primary Problem : Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident : Pilot Deviation

Narrative

WHILE WORKING LCL E ON A RWY 9 OP, I NOTICED A B757 APCH RWY 9L AT TXWY N. THE LCL W CTLR WAS ISSUING TAXIING INSTRUCTIONS TO THAT ACFT TO TURN AWAY FROM RWY 9L AND GO S, NOT N ON TXWY N. IT APPEARED THAT THE ACFT WAS NOT FOLLOWING INSTRUCTIONS. I HAD ALREADY ISSUED TKOF CLRNC TO A CRJ2 ON RWY 9L. I IMMEDIATELY CANCELED HIS TKOF CLRNC AND ADVISED HIM TO EXIT THE RWY AT TXWY T. A FEW MOMENTS LATER THE B757 ACFT CROSSED THE RWY. THE AMASS ALERTED BECAUSE THE CRJ2 WAS STILL SLOWING DOWN TO EXIT AT TXWY T. AFTER A REVIEW OF THE VOICE RECORDINGS, THE B757 PLT CROSSED THE RWY WITHOUT ATC AUTH.

Synopsis

PHL LCL CTLR DESCRIBED GND CONFLICT WHEN ACR ENTERED RWY WITHOUT CLRNC, REQUIRING TKOF CLRNC CANCELLATION AND INITIATING AMASS ALERT.
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Chef_OhAreDees
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« Reply #30 on: April 06, 2008, 11:16:54 AM »

I disagree with you guys. While the controller did give correct information and certainly the pilot made the error, when the pilot specifically asks "do I have clearence to cross?" the controller should have said "negative" so that it would be absolutely clear. It is these responses that can reduce incursions not response like "you should have been listening, I already told you." That said, I think my wife is highly qualified to be ATC...ha!
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KSYR-pjr
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« Reply #31 on: April 06, 2008, 01:15:24 PM »

Since this thread resurfaced I saw that we were waiting to see if anything related to this incident made it to the volunteer aviation safety reporting system.  I ran a query and one report did appear:  The controller's side of the incident, which is interesting given that the pilot was the one who failed to follow instructions.

Here is the full report (note the controller's narrative toward the bottom of the report):

Quote
ACN: 750426 (1 of 1)

Time / Day

Local Time Of Day : 1801 To 2400
Date : 200707

Place

Locale Reference.Airport : PHL.Airport
State Reference : PA
Altitude.AGL.Single Value : 0

Environment

Flight Conditions : IMC
Light : Night

Aircraft : 1

Controlling Facilities.Tower : PHL.Tower
Operator.Common Carrier : Air Carrier
Make Model Name : B757-200
Operating Under FAR Part : Part 121
Flight Phase.Ground : Taxi
Flight Plan : IFR

Aircraft : 2

Controlling Facilities.Tower : PHL.Tower
Operator.Common Carrier : Air Carrier
Make Model Name : Regional Jet 200 ER&LR
Operating Under FAR Part : Part 121
Flight Phase.Ground : Takeoff Roll
Flight Plan : IFR

Person : 1

Affiliation.Government : FAA
Function.Controller : Local
Qualification.Controller : Radar
Experience.Controller.Limited Radar : 10
Experience.Controller.Radar : 2
Experience.Controller.Time Certified In Position1 : 2
Experience.Controller.Time Certified In Position2 : 2
ASRS Report : 750426

Events

Anomaly.Conflict : Ground Critical
Anomaly.Non Adherence : Published Procedure
Anomaly.Incursion : Runway
Independent Detector.Other.ControllerA
Resolutory Action.Controller : Issued New Clearance
Consequence.FAA : Investigated
Miss Distance.Horizontal : 700

Assessments

Problem Areas : Flight Crew Human Performance
Primary Problem : Flight Crew Human Performance
Air Traffic Incident : Pilot Deviation

Narrative

WHILE WORKING LCL E ON A RWY 9 OP, I NOTICED A B757 APCH RWY 9L AT TXWY N. THE LCL W CTLR WAS ISSUING TAXIING INSTRUCTIONS TO THAT ACFT TO TURN AWAY FROM RWY 9L AND GO S, NOT N ON TXWY N. IT APPEARED THAT THE ACFT WAS NOT FOLLOWING INSTRUCTIONS. I HAD ALREADY ISSUED TKOF CLRNC TO A CRJ2 ON RWY 9L. I IMMEDIATELY CANCELED HIS TKOF CLRNC AND ADVISED HIM TO EXIT THE RWY AT TXWY T. A FEW MOMENTS LATER THE B757 ACFT CROSSED THE RWY. THE AMASS ALERTED BECAUSE THE CRJ2 WAS STILL SLOWING DOWN TO EXIT AT TXWY T. AFTER A REVIEW OF THE VOICE RECORDINGS, THE B757 PLT CROSSED THE RWY WITHOUT ATC AUTH.

Synopsis

PHL LCL CTLR DESCRIBED GND CONFLICT WHEN ACR ENTERED RWY WITHOUT CLRNC, REQUIRING TKOF CLRNC CANCELLATION AND INITIATING AMASS ALERT.
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Regards, Peter
ATC Feed:  Syracuse (KSYR), NY
aevins
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« Reply #32 on: April 06, 2008, 02:31:48 PM »

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