Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
December 21, 2014, 03:56:51 PM
Home Help Login Register      
News: LiveATC.net Flyers Released!  Please click here to download & print a copy and be sure to post at an airport near you!


+  LiveATC Discussion Forums
|-+  Air Traffic Monitoring
| |-+  Aviation Audio Clips (Moderators: dave, RonR)
| | |-+  Smoke in the BWI ATCT
« previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 Go Down Print
Author Topic: Smoke in the BWI ATCT  (Read 13917 times)
david021
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7


« on: April 02, 2009, 12:39:27 AM »

Today about 1PM, the BWI ATCT was evacuated and the fire department responded to a fire alarm in the tower..

« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 12:59:21 AM by david021 » Logged
david021
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7


« Reply #1 on: April 02, 2009, 12:47:45 AM »

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kbwi/KBWI-Twr-Apr-01-2009-1630Z.mp3


Here is the Clip..

Kinda interesting, because after they evacuated, airport operations told us that they were going over to the old us airways ramp tower. It sounds like they were using a portable radio.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 12:58:44 AM by david021 » Logged
danielG
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 1


« Reply #2 on: April 02, 2009, 10:53:28 AM »

Been following this forum for a while now, time for me to contribute I think!

The first clip is from the KBWI TWR archives, combined from:

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kbwi/KBWI-Twr-Apr-01-2009-1630Z.mp3
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kbwi/KBWI-Twr-Apr-01-2009-1700Z.mp3
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kbwi/KBWI-Twr-Apr-01-2009-1730Z.mp3

It begins about 1 minute before the announcement that the tower is going to be evacuated, then continues through the period when tower was unmanned, and ends as operations start getting back to normal. Silences have been edited out.

The second clip is from the KBWI BELAY archive, combined from:

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kbwi/KBWI-BELAY-Apr-01-2009-1630Z.mp3
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kbwi/KBWI-BELAY-Apr-01-2009-1700Z.mp3
http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kbwi/KBWI-BELAY-Apr-01-2009-1730Z.mp3

It follows Cape Air 921 (I think!) from initial contact with Approach, into the hold during the closure of KBWI, to the hand-off once the airport had reopened. It contains interesting exchanges whether the crew were prepared to continue into KBWI as an 'uncontrolled field', and updates on what was happening on the ground and how long the delay was likely to be. Transmissions from other aircraft and silences have been edited out.

Enjoy!
« Last Edit: April 02, 2009, 11:08:27 AM by danielG » Logged
PIT
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 527



« Reply #3 on: April 02, 2009, 11:00:57 AM »

Would Washington Center take over control of approach and Departures to/from KBWI?
Logged
w0x0f
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 322



« Reply #4 on: April 02, 2009, 11:31:18 AM »

Would Washington Center take over control of approach and Departures to/from KBWI?

Potomac TRACON works that traffic already.  They aren't co-located so that service would remain the same.  The BWI tower would resume limited operations once they are established in the ramp tower. 

I'm not familiar with their local procedures.  I doubt the ramp tower has radar so the operations would be very limited to one in one out if that is the case.

w0x0f
Logged
wlewis06
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 7


« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2009, 06:42:19 PM »

http://archive-server.liveatc.net/kbwi/KBWI-Twr-Apr-01-2009-1630Z.mp3


Here is the Clip..

Kinda interesting, because after they evacuated, airport operations told us that they were going over to the old us airways ramp tower. It sounds like they were using a portable radio.

Some interesting audio with Piedmont 4164 and the Southwest jet on approach (WN 50 if I heard correctly)
Logged
mk
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 94



« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2009, 11:52:00 AM »

tower ops remain the same...standard runway separation applies for tower controllers...potomac controllers use the bwi radar sensor which can track aircraft to within 1/2 mile from the runway...so operationally nothing would change once the controllers opened the temp tower.
Logged
w0x0f
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 322



« Reply #7 on: April 08, 2009, 12:26:35 PM »

tower ops remain the same...standard runway separation applies for tower controllers...potomac controllers use the bwi radar sensor which can track aircraft to within 1/2 mile from the runway...so operationally nothing would change once the controllers opened the temp tower.

So the temp tower has radar?
Logged
w0x0f
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 322



« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2009, 05:00:26 PM »

tower ops remain the same...standard runway separation applies for tower controllers...potomac controllers use the bwi radar sensor which can track aircraft to within 1/2 mile from the runway...so operationally nothing would change once the controllers opened the temp tower.

How is arrival information passed from the TRACON to the tower?

How is departure information passed from ZDC computer to BWI?

How are releases obtained by BWI from TRACON?

What type separation is BWI using if there is no radar display?  Visual is very limited.
Logged
sykocus
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 349



« Reply #9 on: April 09, 2009, 05:41:48 AM »

tower ops remain the same...standard runway separation applies for tower controllers...potomac controllers use the bwi radar sensor which can track aircraft to within 1/2 mile from the runway...so operationally nothing would change once the controllers opened the temp tower.

How is arrival information passed from the TRACON to the tower?

How is departure information passed from ZDC computer to BWI?

How are releases obtained by BWI from TRACON?

What type separation is BWI using if there is no radar display?  Visual is very limited.

Information can always be passed by telephone. There's usually a phone number that will ring directly at the position in the center or approach that you need to get a hold of. It's not as fast or convenient as a direct line, but it'll get the job done in a pinch. Though I'm sure operations slowed down quite a bit. Departure information doesn't get passed from the center to the tower. It goes the other way. Tower>TRACON>Center, and generally that is done automatically when plane "tags up" on the radar scope (in the tracon). If you mean clearance information the someone in the tower would probably call someone in the tracon with the time to relay the flight plans to the tower. As for separation: towers generally don't use their radar displays for separation unless the tower and a radar facility are combined up.
Logged

Yesterday I couldn't spell air traffic controller. Today I R one.
jmcmanna
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 36


« Reply #10 on: April 09, 2009, 07:03:18 AM »

Departure flight plan information starts at the ZDC Host Computer and is transmittion through the FDIO to the control tower.  Once the aircraft departs, a departure message is sent back to the Center computer and the flight becomes "active" in the system, sending strips to other facilities as the aircraft flight along.

Without a certified radar scope, BWI would become a VFR Tower and probably would have to call for releases since they have no way to provide in-trail departure separation. 

Arriving aircraft information is likely passed over the telephone if there isn't any other method available.  The TRACON would be responsible for arrival/arrival separation (which they probably were before, anyway).

Between arrivals/departures, visual is pretty much their only option.  If the weather was such where visual separation was impossible, the operation would slow down even more and coordination would increase between the radar room and tower.
Logged
sykocus
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 349



« Reply #11 on: April 09, 2009, 08:40:41 AM »


Without a certified radar scope, BWI would become a VFR Tower and probably would have to call for releases since they have no way to provide in-trail departure separation. 

that's a good point. they probably have automatic releases under normal ops, but would be taken away.
Logged

Yesterday I couldn't spell air traffic controller. Today I R one.
w0x0f
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 322



« Reply #12 on: April 09, 2009, 12:41:15 PM »

The point I was making was that tower ops would not remain the same.  Flight data information is a major problem, not to mention the lack of radar. 

Towers do use radar separation and have letters of agreement with their associated radar facility.  Initial separation of departures is done with radar, so not having a radar display at the remote tower makes it a one in-one out facility.

So I guess my point is things are hardly normal under these circumstances as some here have said.  That's all.

w0x0f 
Logged
mk
Jr. Member
**
Offline Offline

Posts: 94



« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2009, 11:17:59 AM »

i was sitting in the tracon...no it was not NORMAL ops as you would call it....but you don't need radar to work tower.  you have runway separation and you have visual to give to departure...and any good tower controller would be hard pressed to give less than 3 miles to dept.   you'd really have to launch, hold in position, launch...etc.   

we did need rolling calls for departures since we weren't getting a scan ticket from tower. 

so it was not normal, but it was far easier than you'd imagine.   the only scramble was when the tower called and said we're OUT...but once they were established in the temp tower it was no biggie
Logged
davolijj
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 548


MMAC ARSR OKC


« Reply #14 on: April 11, 2009, 02:50:44 PM »

i was sitting in the tracon...no it was not NORMAL ops as you would call it....but you don't need radar to work tower.  you have runway separation and you have visual to give to departure...and any good tower controller would be hard pressed to give less than 3 miles to dept.   you'd really have to launch, hold in position, launch...etc.

It's pretty funny how someone who clearly has no tower experience can so easily make a statement qualifying a "good tower controller" as someone able to provide 3 miles initial departure separation from a temp tower without radar.  A good tower controller could theoretically provide about 2 to 2 1/2 miles on successive departures easily, by hitting the CAT III SRS minimums each launch.  Someone with tower experience would probably know this.  Maybe you should ask your trainer about more specifics on tower ops - it'll only help you out in the long run.
Logged

Regards
JD
Pages: [1] 2 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  


Login with username, password and session length

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.20 | SMF © 2011, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!