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Author Topic: SWA2709 Stuck Mic  (Read 13903 times)
swa4678
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« on: July 08, 2013, 03:25:44 PM »

Does anyone have a LAS APP recording from today (2013-07-08) beginning at approx. 2:10pm CDT (1910z)? SWA2709 responded to an instruction and then experienced a stuck mic. Some fairly hilarious cockpit conversation ensued... as well as an F-bomb getting dropped loud 'n' clear.

Unfortunately I was too busy laughing to think to set VLC to stream it to a file.
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saiarcot895
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« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2013, 07:38:01 PM »

The LiveATC archives have the last 30 days of recordings. I took the liberty to get the relevant portion (and I do hope SWA2709 contacted the tower).
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svoynick
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« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2013, 09:55:10 PM »

The LiveATC archives have the last 30 days of recordings. I took the liberty to get the relevant portion (and I do hope SWA2709 contacted the tower).
Oh man, that's the "relevant" portion, but I was just dying for the payoff...  The best part of stuck mic situations is what happens after... 

(Was it a New York or BOS controller - after a pilot gave his passenger briefing over the air - who just kinda sat back and transmitted "OK guys, let him have it...."    Hilarity ensued.

Aside from one's expectation that the pilot in question will get a huge amount of grief from his colleagues, I have a question about the "sterile cockpit" rule.  I'm guessing if they were being handed from approach to tower, they were probably below 10,000 ft, and thus technically under sterile cockpit rules.  How strict are the regulations about "nonessential conversations"? 

Note: I am not intending or proposing to sit in judgment of this crew, based on this recording, and I don't want to turn this thread into that, but this recording does bring to mind the general question of just how rigorously that rule is adhered to by different pilots and crews.  General thoughts and/or experiences?
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saiarcot895
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« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2013, 10:16:16 PM »

I listened for a couple of minutes after, and there didn't seem to be anything else. In fact, I didn't hear SWA2709 (at least in those few minutes after).

Aside from one's expectation that the pilot in question will get a huge amount of grief from his colleagues, I have a question about the "sterile cockpit" rule.  I'm guessing if they were being handed from approach to tower, they were probably below 10,000 ft, and thus technically under sterile cockpit rules.  How strict are the regulations about "nonessential conversations"?  

Note: I am not intending or proposing to sit in judgment of this crew, based on this recording, and I don't want to turn this thread into that, but this recording does bring to mind the general question of just how rigorously that rule is adhered to by different pilots and crews.  General thoughts and/or experiences?

I'm not a pilot, but have flown in Flight Simulator X and FlightGear (if that counts for anything). During descent or under 10000 ft, I wouldn't even consider having a nonessential conversation with all that's going on (flaps, speed, altitude, alignment, etc.).

EDIT: That was from the APP/DEP feed. The tower feed does have 2709 checking in. From what I could understand, the controller asked him if he was coming in loud and clear, and then he was cleared to land. Nothing else interesting with regards to SWA2709.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2013, 10:35:50 PM by saiarcot895 » Logged
swa4678
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« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2013, 11:58:28 AM »

What was odd to me is that not once did I hear someone on the APP frequency yell out "stuck mic." Likewise, APP kept trying to raise SWA2709 in a manner that suggested they were considering him NORDO.

How, then, did the LiveATC feed pick it up?

EDIT: @saiarcot895 - thanks for slicing and uploading the clip; I had forgotten about the archives somehow.
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ATCzero
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« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2013, 12:34:25 PM »

What was odd to me is that not once did I hear someone on the APP frequency yell out "stuck mic." Likewise, APP kept trying to raise SWA2709 in a manner that suggested they were considering him NORDO.

How, then, did the LiveATC feed pick it up?

EDIT: @saiarcot895 - thanks for slicing and uploading the clip; I had forgotten about the archives somehow.

I noticed that too! Normally the controller broadcasts about a stuck mic, and/or other pilots mention it.
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en route air traffic controller at ZLA
saiarcot895
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« Reply #6 on: July 09, 2013, 01:24:19 PM »

Is it possible the frequency on the plane changed slightly (like by .025) such that the other aircraft/ATC no longer hears the aircraft or hears it faintly, but the feeder's equipment still picked it up since the frequency difference is small?
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InterpreDemon
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« Reply #7 on: July 09, 2013, 01:39:08 PM »

Svoynick - That famous clip was a JFK ground controller. Don't know if it is a sticky LiveATC link here, but it is on YouTube:



And Salarcot, it all depends upon the location of the feed antenna in relation to the ATC ground stations and the aircraft. An aircraft on approach is still airborne, relatively close and will come in pretty strong, but other aircraft that are closer to the ground station or have a better path will hear ground over the stuck mic. You really have no way of knowing where the ATC ground stations for approach and departure are without research, but often they are NOT located at the airfield, often many miles away, so the effect of a stuck mic on overall communications is fairly unpredictable. These transmission are AM, so unlike FM there is no "capture effect" and almost all signals can be heard by anybody even if it is just a weak heterodyne (squeal or tone) in the background under the stronger signals. If the aircraft were 25kc off the heterodyne would be inaudibly high even if the audio sections of the receiver and feed chain could pass it to your ears (which would also not hear it unless you are a dog or a bat), but most receivers and scanners would not pick it up at all unless very close/strong, and if off by say a couple kc you would hear the heterodyne.
« Last Edit: July 09, 2013, 01:41:10 PM by InterpreDemon » Logged

Feed Purveyor:
KJFK ARINC
KHPN ATIS
(KJFK) NY DEP Liberty East
HF CAR-A  3455/5550/6577/8846/11396
HF ARINC LDOC  6640/8933
HF NY VOLMET  6604

Complaints should be addressed to: City Hall
joeyb747
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Nothing Like A 747!


« Reply #8 on: July 09, 2013, 02:13:44 PM »

@ InterpreDemon;

What was the temp again?? Where's our gate?? HAHA!

cheesy grin
« Last Edit: July 10, 2013, 07:52:28 AM by joeyb747 » Logged

Aircraft Mechanic
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« Reply #9 on: July 09, 2013, 09:29:08 PM »

I listened for a couple of minutes after, and there didn't seem to be anything else. In fact, I didn't hear SWA2709 (at least in those few minutes after).

Aside from one's expectation that the pilot in question will get a huge amount of grief from his colleagues, I have a question about the "sterile cockpit" rule.  I'm guessing if they were being handed from approach to tower, they were probably below 10,000 ft, and thus technically under sterile cockpit rules.  How strict are the regulations about "nonessential conversations"?  

Note: I am not intending or proposing to sit in judgment of this crew, based on this recording, and I don't want to turn this thread into that, but this recording does bring to mind the general question of just how rigorously that rule is adhered to by different pilots and crews.  General thoughts and/or experiences?

I'm not a pilot, but have flown in Flight Simulator X and FlightGear (if that counts for anything). During descent or under 10000 ft, I wouldn't even consider having a nonessential conversation with all that's going on (flaps, speed, altitude, alignment, etc.).

EDIT: That was from the APP/DEP feed. The tower feed does have 2709 checking in. From what I could understand, the controller asked him if he was coming in loud and clear, and then he was cleared to land. Nothing else interesting with regards to SWA2709.

Wrong
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Strappy
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« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2013, 07:46:05 AM »

Sounds like they are listening to the am raido through their hearsets.
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JTS97Z28
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« Reply #11 on: July 22, 2013, 09:59:06 AM »

I listened for a couple of minutes after, and there didn't seem to be anything else. In fact, I didn't hear SWA2709 (at least in those few minutes after).

Aside from one's expectation that the pilot in question will get a huge amount of grief from his colleagues, I have a question about the "sterile cockpit" rule.  I'm guessing if they were being handed from approach to tower, they were probably below 10,000 ft, and thus technically under sterile cockpit rules.  How strict are the regulations about "nonessential conversations"?  

Note: I am not intending or proposing to sit in judgment of this crew, based on this recording, and I don't want to turn this thread into that, but this recording does bring to mind the general question of just how rigorously that rule is adhered to by different pilots and crews.  General thoughts and/or experiences?

I'm not a pilot, but have flown in Flight Simulator X and FlightGear (if that counts for anything). During descent or under 10000 ft, I wouldn't even consider having a nonessential conversation with all that's going on (flaps, speed, altitude, alignment, etc.).

EDIT: That was from the APP/DEP feed. The tower feed does have 2709 checking in. From what I could understand, the controller asked him if he was coming in loud and clear, and then he was cleared to land. Nothing else interesting with regards to SWA2709.

LOL I'm pretty sure when your playing flight simulator it's ok to talk below 10,000ft hahaha
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dan9125
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« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2013, 01:24:46 PM »

This was another stuck mic moment you might remember---->

http://www.liveatc.net/forums/atcaviation-audio-clips/yyz-controller-swears-when-his-mike-was-inadvertantly-live/
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CitizenDK
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« Reply #13 on: July 26, 2013, 08:16:04 PM »

For whomever wondered about yelling "Stuck Mike" - think about that for a second... Yes, it is often done by other aircraft or a controller - but it absolutely does No Good! When the offending aircraft is stuck in transmit mode there can be no reception until the stuck mic is corrected. (Once the channel is clear it might be worthwhile to mention that someone had a stuck mic previously)

And yes - this conversation in the late part of the approach does not flatter the crew in any regard...
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Fred_Garvin
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« Reply #14 on: July 27, 2013, 10:27:56 AM »

I am reading the autobiography of an American WW2 fighter pilot, he tells the story of a fellow squadron member with a stuck mike during a combat mission.
The offending pilot would talk to himself during the mission so everyone got to hear is "inner monologue"  including "what's this idiot doing" when a wing man pulls along side to try and clue him in on the stuck mike.  Very funny.
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